First off, I know it said the forums aren't the place to contact FFG directly, so I assume customer support is the place to send complaints and suggestions. If its not and somebody knows where to send an email, please let me know.

When I first heard of the BSG game, I was kind of ambivilent given I was more interested in some combat game, but got it based on a lot of recommendations from friends. My first few game experiences were great, and I was all ready to go get the expansions. Then we played a game where I got thrown in the brig on turn 2 (was playing boomer and turned out to be a cylon).

Now, here's the deal. The experience I had with that has me basically putting the game in the basement and done with ever playing it again. Those of you who love the game probably do for the same reasons I did when I first started playing it. And, by the way, my experience with FFG games is generally good, though I wouldn't call them flawless. But, regardless of strategies you can do to get out, and regardless of it being a smart (in this case just lucky) move for a human to throw a cylon in the brig right away, it basically ruins the experience of the game for that player. My grief with this (and any game) which allows you to ruin the game for one player from the get-go, for any reason, makes me wonder what the hell the game designer was smoking when they designed the game?

This is, I guess, a matter of opinion, but I think it literally makes the game not worth playing. If the other players in the game are dead set in keeping you in the brig, your best move is to just leave the game and let them figure out how to play it from there.

Well, those who love it will come up with answers as to what to do when thrown in the brig. Mine is drop the game and tell people not to play it who want to play good games. To each their own. The best thing, I guess, beyond that I can do is tell FFG the issue, but I doubt it will matter. I'm really posting this just to say one person's experience, and also to see if anyone else has a similar experience. Not here to argue the counterpoints, but if you do post, I promise to read them and think about them.

One other recommendation. I would like if FFG actually put something out for BSG that was a strategic game. Star Trek was soap opera-ish and had events as well, but certainly the interest in Star Trek games has followed strategy and combat games. Sure, most of the TV show wasn't about that, but then again, why should a game have to be like a show? I'll give FFG props for trying to make an intriguing game of BSG based on not knowing 'who the cylon is,' but um, how about something else, now?

If you read this far, thanks for putting up with the post.

I guess I don't understand the problem. The brig sucks if you're human and the other humans aren't wanting to help get you out, but if you're a cylon you just reveal and try to figure out what made them put you in the brig in the first place so you don't do it next time. It's not like you weren't destined to be revealing or going to the brig soon anyway, that's kinda what Boomer does.

James McMurray said:

This. I suspect you didn't know you could reveal from the brig? By all means, once it becomes clear they're dead set on leaving you in, use Boomer's OPG to auto-fail one check, use her high number of blue cards to sabotage other checks (only 1 card each, I know) and when your turn comes around, draw your full hand, reveal, keep your three best, grab a super crisis, start wailing on them from the other side. Good times!

James and Outlaw have already mentioned getting out of the brig by revealing, so I'll try to address your issue with the game's "brig mechanic." Getting stuck in the brig as a human sucks; if the other humans won't let you out b/c they think you are a Cylon or because they are too busy controlling damage, you will probably be stuck there for a long long time. The thing is, this move is probably not in the best interest of the humans; imho it is never in the best interest of the humans to leave someone in the brig. First of all, there is no way they can ever be absolutely sure of someone's loyalty, and leaving a potentially human player in the brig will hurt them big time in the long run. If the player is a Cylon, they got lucky, if not, when the Cylons reveal the humans will have a really hard time getting someone out. Hell, the unrevealed Cylons don't even want to leave someone in the brig too long since they also don't know the loyalty of that player and it may be their partner who is rotting away in there. And if another player lands in the brig through a Crisis card or b/c they were sent there by the President or by use of the Admiral's Quarters, the humans are in big trouble. The game is stacked against the humans to begin with, Cylon players really only need to nudge in the proper places to ensure the humans lose, and with 1 or more players not drawing a Crisis each turn and not being able to contribute more than 1 card to skill checks, the burden falls entirely on the humans who remain free, and they will quickly run out of cards trying to keep up. The lack of progress on the jump track will be their downfall sooner or later. The point of the brig is that it is impossible to get out on your own without other players helping. That being said, the brig (or execution) is really the only option the humans have for controlling a known Cylon. If a player that everyone knows to be a Cylon it running loose, the only option the humans have if the Cylon wants to stay on board (for whatever reason, whether that be the ability to screw up more skill checks, because they hold a title, etc) is usually the brig since executions require a higher skill check and the player being targetted for execution should have an easier time fighting it. If you are a Cylon who lands in the brig, its usually best to just reveal and start using Cylon locations like Outlaw said - you won't get to use your reveal ability, but you can't always sit around waiting for that opportunity. The last game I lost as a Cylon player was almost entirely based on me delaying and waiting for a good reveal opportunity that never came up; by the time I did finally reveal it was too late to do much damage.
I'd say give the game another shot since it sounds like you didn't know you could reveal from inside the brig; and try to explain to your players before the game even starts why leaving someone in the brig is a bad call.

Most people will say that my group is either cheating or something but we play with the housen rule that a player can play any amount of their cards to get out of the brig but only one card during any other skill check.

Interesting. I'm curious why you decided to house rule that? It would seem that the brig loses part of its 'threat' if you can get out fairly easily on your turn...

mastabou said:

We came up with it by making someone making that misstake and we never fixed it. I can personally say however that you can still be stuck in the brig for a while. (Story time)

Here's what happened: I was pretty sure after my turn I knew who the two cylons were. One of the people I was accusing was the president. So iin order to shout me up (and prevent me from helping my fellow humans) he played the quorum card to though me into the brig. A few rounds later I had be able to get out cause I finally had someone help me get out and then the cylon president reveled himself and sent me to sickbay. Oh BTW I was right about both cylons and and from that game on i have been title the "Human Cylon Detector".

If you're really up for reading a pile of counterarguments, KelRiever, you're in luck, as this exact topic came up a couple of months ago on the BGG boards:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/603152/i-hate-the-brig

Okay, I did read the counterarguements, just so people know I put some thought into it (including the link). None of it really changes my mind, because its all strategies for dealing with something that (in one person's opinion) is still a bad design in the game. I kind of like the inventive solutions mentioned, such as being able to play unlimited cards to get yourself out. Another idea floated was that, since it is just about never a good idea to throw someone in the brig early, just not allow it for the first two turns (maybe it would be countered by not being able to reveal for the first two turns...who knows). That is, if we ever play the game again. I am glad you all like it, but I'll be deep sixing this game for the foreseeable future. I'll just spend the time playing the FFG games I think are good!

KelRiever said:

Ok I am just sorry you are "boxing the line" after a few bad games.

While I don't really expect to change your mind at this point, I'll say that being Cylon Sharon in the brig (as long as there's no airlock) is probably one of the most amusing things for an 'unrevealed' cylon.

-Play Evasive Action when raiders miss their shots

-Launch Scouts to crash raptors

-Strategic planning on Basestar Missiles

-Spike skill check with your abundance of red and blue cards.

-Screw with the Crisis deck every turn.

-Attempt to escape the brig to make everyone waste cards keeping you in.

If you don't like the game, that's one thing, but its really unfair to blame bad game design on a misunderstanding of the rules and a bad play experince that results. The real value of the game is the psychology from playing, and the lying and paranoia. That's what makes it fun.

So because you didn't know the rules of the game you are going to just blame it on bad game design? That's pretty ridiculous considering as a cylon you were in perhaps the best spot on galactica to play a cylon from without being revealed. I understand you think that it sucks, had you been a human in the brig but that rarely happens and usually it's because a cylon player is very good at convincing others or the group is new to the game. Even so it will become very clear quickly if the player in the brig is truly a human. You NEED every human player in the game to pass skill checks and keep the heal off your fleet.

BSG is not a hardned set of rules game that you follow a pattern to win at. The games rules are a framework for driving the players and their own personalities. Once you get into the setting of the game it because more entertaining to play the game. I would suggest playing the game as a group and having players play their chosen roles more in character from the series. You can get some really interesting results and game dynamics going that way.

If that doesn't fix it for you than it just isn't your type of game. Just don't blame the rules on your bad play experience and unfamiliarty with the rules.

The brig is an incredibly important and awesome part of this game. I think the brig is a brilliant design decision that is a core piece of the beastly board game that is BSG. But this is a very particular sort of beast that some people won't like. If you don't like it then this probably just isn't the game for you. No fault on FFG's side for designing a game that one particular person doesn't enjoy, no fault on your side for not enjoying a game that FFG made. If your copy's in decent condition, though, I would recommend selling your used copy on ebay or amazon or donate it or some such, though, to get it to people who could enjoy it rather than just letting it fester in the basement.

I have to say that I agree with some of the posts here. The game design is not in question, as it is not the game design that had you consigned to the brig, it was your fellow players.

I play with a regular group and we all know how we play certain games. What keeps us coming back to BSG is that every game, we get to play it differently. I played Sharon as a Cylon yesterday and unfortunately, got brigged after the destiny deck served up 2 blue cards and I had played a single blue card into the check. But, I actually managed to convince two of the human players to help get me out. There was enough doubt in their mind that I was able to initiate my own release. Mid game, I automatically got brigged and once again, manipulated the other players into believing I was human. The very next turn, I stitched the humans like a kipper.

To me, BSG is about human interaction. The game mechanics allow for that interaction like no other game I have ever played. The mechanics actually allow me to choose my own course through the game but my conversation with fellow players, scrutinisng their styles of play and then messing with their heads is amazing. I do not care who wins and loses, but every player in our group agrees that playing a cylon well is what counts. We even have humans faking being cylon to lure out the other cylon player. I almost fell for it yesterday, it was so convincing. That is where playing BSG beats the other games I own. For once, it is not the mechanics or a dice roll that screwed me over, it was a living, breathing human being who convinced me of something they weren't.

Furey said:

And to be honest, I feel like those who complain about bad game experiences are aware of this interaction and complaining about it for the same reason we're celebrating it. The discomfort--even shame--of being beaten through straight up person to person interaction can be significant.

Holy Outlaw said:

Oh so true. The emphasis of BSG as a game in all its guises, is that of social interaction . I have read through the BGG thread and was shocked by the "threats" that some players felt was necessary to play if you wound up in the brig. That's not social interaction, that is poor gamesmanship. All teddies report to the launch pad!!

What BSG forces players to do is to forget who you know. No longer can you trust your best friend, wife, girlfriend/boyfriend etc. You must assess the player as they go. And interestingly enough, you must do this every game with every player. Leave your pre-conceived ideas at the door, as they are wrong and have no place at the game table. At some point, you must trust someone. Just make sure that you choose wisely, the fate of humanity hangs in the balance.

That human interaction is definitely what sold my group on this game and what has it rapidly approaching our 'most played' title. The suspense/suspicion of not knowing who the Cylon is, and the mind games you can play with your fellow players is what we play for, the mechanics of the game (the actual winning/losing) are just the delivery method of our enjoyment. Despite being a player that takes winning seriously in almost every game I play, I actually look forward more to the individual moments in BSG ( a great reveal or a clever swaying of suspicion/accusation) moreso than the eventual outcome (still always a plus to win though ) Like one of the previous posters mentioned, there are some great things that can be accomplished from the brig (cylon or human) and if you are wrongfully brigged, its fun just to act so offended. I believe our very first game, I lost my voice arguing that I was human ( i was) and was brigged early (by a cylon) and it was still probably my favorite game we have played yet.

@KelRiever

Now, this may be a stupid question, but... you do realize players are supposed to know only their own loyalty cards, right? Because the only way for first-round briggings to occur would be either a cylon-detecting Baltar being taken seriously (yeah, right...) or a cylon making a mistake or having bad luck (like the above Boomer tale - put in a blue card and have double blue destiny while being the only one with blue playing into the test) or humans being very trigger-happy.

Cifer said:

Or Saul is the cylon in a 3-4 player game, just got an XO, and figures he can win it here and now by putting everyone else in the brig. It's especially nasty if one of the other players is Starbuck.

That's... umm... OUCH.

James McMurray said:

ROFL i would LOVE to have seen the looks on their faces. PRICELESS!

Baenre said:

Me too, but AKAIK it's never happened. I've only played Saul twice and been human each time.

If people make the assumption that there is "nothing to do" while in the brig, I think they may be misunderstanding the "Current Player/Admiral/President chooses" cards: all players should be putting forward their views on the choice to be made, it's just the named player has final arbitration on the decision. Being in the brig doesn't preclude you from voicing your thoughts on these, and it's these debates that I find the majority of the game lies.

Even with a standard crisis card, there's the decision to be made of whether the group is actually going to make any effort to win it: part of the key to winning as humans is to know which battles to walk away from. If everyone is low on cards and the loss conditions aren't particularly dire for the current situation, it can often be worth taking the hit to have a stronger response to the next crisis. If your group aren't discussing these sorts of things before starting a check, then you are missing out on the main part of the game, and thus it could be understandable why languishing in the brig seems to have very little to do.

Also, remember to point out for every crisis where it's true "I could help loads with this check... if I could play more than one card!"

Just house rule it in that no one can be put in the brig until after the first jump or until everyone has had at least one turn.

Personally, I don't see the issue other than you have some questionable players if they randomly throw people in the brig. Or, you're just a really bad Cylon and your eyes lit up when you looked at your card.

Eidolon said:

You mean something like this ?