I can show you the type of deck he's talking about. 6 O'clock Thursday @ Bobby Jones location?

I get what you are aiming for there swingjunkie however I have a new baby boy on the way and he could be here any day now so I'm staying a bit closer to home. I do want more variety in the opponents I play so yes at some point soonish I'd love to get in some games with you.

Periculum filled me in on how the deck works. I'm not sure yet but from a disorder point of view I think it's beatable from an order view trying to stay in your own gimic without spending too much time dealing with the haunted city is a bit of a headache and will only get worse once the light of morschebe comes out (pardon the spelling, the support that allows one to put two developements from hand into play).

I have a dark elf deck that can deal with it now but for that matter it sticks to the classic tennants of control. The player simply has to zero in on what to control and when. There's no deck list that can do that on it's own. Experience in watching the opponent and how his gimic works is the only way to relliably beat a deck like haunted city or reclaim the fallen.

Not saying any of us are chumps here just saying this is a new gimic and we're in that cycle of doom where very few have the experience needed to take the whole picture of how the new toys work and what to do to control them.

Yeah, I find myself agreeing with Harliquine on this new "unbeatable" deck. I'll guess it's really strong but not a deal-breaker like Bolt-thrower seemed to be back in the day.

I also agree with our World Champion Vitamin T on the desperate need for a Tactic or Damage-canceler for Destruction.

I'd agree that disorder needs a tactic canceler/damage canceler with some variety in which home faction it belongs to. However those cards shouldn't be anything like what the order side has. Instead of a cancel maybe a redirect of some sort. Like convert any amount of damage being dealt to your capital during the combat phase into indirect damage instead. That way our beloved orc players can stay in the game and have a wicked counter attack on the following turn. Or a tactic canceler that requires one to sacrifice a unit in order to take control of said tactic. Both methods would play well to disorder strengths without being over powered or falling victim to "those are nice but the order side ones are just so much better" arguement.

The new FAQs are really a vomit.

Instead of Empire, Dwarf deck it's destroyed. This could be a REALLY balancing restricting list instead:

- Willhelm
- Mining Tunnels
- Warpstone Excavation
- Innovation
- Judgment of Verena
- Reclaim the Fallens
- Visit the Haunted City

In Italy (which is a big part of your market) we are very pissed off, said only for your knowledge.

It's an awesome change. It definitely impacts the over-hyped Empire decks and really brings Dwarves back down to earth. Not only that, and more importantly, it opens up more slots for cards in players' decks again. No more 41-card decks. YAY!!!

Great job, FFG.

And BigV - I apologize but I'm not posting any of my decks just to prove what I already know to some random internet dude. We went down that road before with DDM5181717817 (whatever the heck his name was) and I realized that all I was doing was enabling his annoyingly arrogant tendencies. I agree that Verena decks are tough right now but they're definitely not (just my opinion, mind you) the top tier uber decks out there. And especially not with this new restricted list on the scene. We'll have to agree to disagree. If it helps any, I think your country is one of the coolest on the planets.

BigV said:

And when BigV says we're very pissed off, it means V-E-R-Y P-I-S-S-E-D O-F-F!!

Mordechai said:

Wytefang said:

Wytefang said:

It can be better right now.

Anyway...As I said, I really like this Restricted List...But about Verena: it IS the uber deck. It wins almost any game again any deck you can imagine.

The best opponent with Orcs? Dwarves-Reclaim.

But I think the game is changin'...slowly, as for the LCG trend, but it's changin' and I'm pretty sure it'll be better than now, 'cause I trust FFG...Maybe there's a little lack of playtesting (good design, bad playtesting), but with the restricted list and a bit more effort we'll get a great game, slower than now (I really like the idea) and with lots of deckbuilding trobules (I like it a lot too).

Wytefang said:

I did't know what happened with this user, but if i don't see the list it's hard for me to imagine how strong is. If your fear is to me stealing your idea well, i live in Italy...

My goal is to create a discussion of deckbuilding, not to insult or be arrogant, and i apologize if you felt this.

BigV - I appreciate the comments though I don't think you were like this other individual that used to troll here. No worries!

rofl, i come back and see none other than my biggest fan. Hi Wytefang <3 Slow-roll any terrible deck ideas for 3 weeks lately?

BigV - you are spot on man. Even not playing for months now, my initial feeling is with you that they restricted the wrong cards. I like the approach though, and I am *very* encouraged to see FFG doing something. Where I am starting on metagame analysis is looking at what decks the "death" of dwarves make possible to attack empire from new angles. In particular, going fast via Skaven or going big via Orc Control. Will check in after some testing and let you know where we're at.

Thanks for proving me right. Slow Troll any other CCG/LCG forums while you were gone? LOL

Stay classy big guy. Just remember all I ever did was ask you to prove your ideas by posting decklists/playtest results. I realize *you* construe that as "trolling", but most people consider it informed discussion :

Dangit. I had a really amusing response typed up but figured it'd be best to give you the benefit of the doubt, yet again.

Like we've all told you (including moderators) previously, as long as you keep a polite, respectful attitude towards other poster's opinions and ideas, you'll be fine. Where you go wrong every time is assuming that you somehow, despite a lack of any tourney experience with the game, know more than anyone else here about the competitive environment.

But we've gone over that before, quite enough. Hopefully this time you keep a more positive attitude about this great game that most of us are still having a blast with.

Wytefang: I WANT DISCUSSION TO BE ABOUT THE GAME AND THE DECKS WE PLAY, NOT EACH OTHER. OK?

I will totally engage you if you post an idea or a deck I think is bad, but I'm going to attack it based on its merits relative to decks I've tested it against, NOT your personal qualifications as a tournament player/poster on these forums/whatever. Get me? It would be nice if you would take the high road and do the same.

"I WANT DISCUSSION TO BE ABOUT THE GAME AND THE DECKS WE PLAY, NOT EACH OTHER. OK?"

Yes please. You guys both clearly have worthwhile opinions to offer, so lets all try this plan out for awhile.

::: chuckles ::: We'll have to see how long this can last...based on past experiences, I'm guessing it won't be long before old tendencies creep in but one can hope.

Anyway...moving on...

Wytefang said:

Did you just type out, :::chuckles:::? Seriously?

Vitamin T said:

Wytefang said:

Harliquine said:

Dwarfs actually.

As the Dwarf’s Spelleater Rune deflects hostile magic , the Empire’s mighty Helstorm Rocket Battery scatters the ranks of opposing armies. Meanwhile, the Wood Elves unleash the power of the ancient Forest Dragon, and Slaanesh’s Keeper of Secrets invades the minds of her weak-willed victims.

Another much wanted order cancel is coming

Verena is the deck to beat right now for sure. It seems very weird that Wilhelm was the card picked for the restricted list instead of Judgement. For old time Magic players, it seems a bit like the first ever Magic restricted list where they restricted the Moxes (sure), Black Lotus (of course), Time Walk (obviously), similarly overpowered stuff... and then cards like Dingus Egg and Orcish Oriflamme (wtf!).

I still think the Restricted List is a move in the right direction and I actually kind of like the pick-the-one-you-want mechanic they used. May need more tuning.

As a metagame note, at the risk of derailing the thread, I think the Verena deck is very difficult to beat right now (and as usual I mean you consistently win >50%, not just occasional games) - but it might be possible with some dedicated hate (Wake the Mountain etc). When more of the Morrslieb cycle comes out with cards like Light of Morrslieb, we'll see if the development-centred Empire build still is king of the crop.

I wish I could share more of my experiences with the playtesting group here in MN, as it speaks to your question, but I cannot. CURSE YOU NDA!!!

Only for knowledge, we had a tourney today with 30 people, the Top 8 was composed by 6 Empire-Verena control (pretty similar decks, 1 or 2 card type of difference) 1 Orc-Rush and 1 Orc-Reanimator.

Obviously the final was Verena vs Verena.

It's that a sign of lack of balance in the game or not?

P.S.

To anticipate your probably answers: in Italy we are not n00b at all.

Sometimes fear of a deck being overpowered can be self fulfilling. I do think that verena is probably the best deck, I just think that there are decks that can compete with it. Sometimes if something is considered the 'best' deck then everyone plays it and it ends up being a large amount of the field in events.

Do get me wrong, I feel like that Judgement, not wilhelm belongs on the restricted list.

TL