Essentially? A "Reverse Ascension" - basically the equivalents of ranks 1-4 in DH for Rogue Trader PCs, if only as a means to help build from the ground up and also because it might help compatibility. Bonus points if we get the 'ascension' to at least Rank 16 equivalents on the other end. But really, I'd like to see how someone progresses from whatever to Arch Militant or what a Rogue Trader learns and does before they assume command. That sort of thing. Or how a DH group could then transition into Rogue Trader if a GM wanted, instead of Ascension.

By the same Token I'd probably say the same thing for Deathwatch wouldn't hurt either.

Dulahan said:

While I understand the idea I don't think this could work rules-wise. Character creation in RT differes from the one in DH, even if you only take the options from the main book, if you add the ones from Into the Sotrm then it becomes a nightmare. Explaining witha rank how a character undertook a "dark voyage" while being "the last child" would cost more than it's really worth. So I don't think this will ever happen.

In essence this would be an alternate way to do things. That "Dark Voyage" instead done through actual play from the grunt level as PCs. Or the adepts do something big earlier and move on to other things. Or any other number of plot ideas.

Yes, I do like the chart. But there's no reason we couldn't find out an alternate 'ascension' style system somehow. And it would go a long way towards making RT work with the other two (Because right now it's the most awkward fit by far - especially since it lacks the last 4 ranks)

Essentially you would have to treat all the Rogue Trader Careers as alternate career ranks for Dark Heresy characters.

In order to take one you would have to have all the Rank 1 starting skills/talents that a RT Career begins with as a prerequisite (or similar enough list of skills) and the +5 to each characteristic (thereby making you 25+2D10 equivalent). Your 4 ranks of DH career and the adventures you took to get there would replace the origin path.

Alternatively, you can lessen the requirements to get into the career, make them rank 3 or 4 career alternate ranks for DH careers and require the PC to purchase the listed startiong skills/talents before advancing to Rank 5 (or something like that).

Again, origin path is removed.

And on that note, I would love to see a "origin" path system for Ascension to speed up character creation. You owuld need like 10 steps in it in genal, and maybe 3-4 career specific steps and 1-2 home world specific sets.

It woudl be a bit complex to cover completely, but it could be done.

I completely agree on that too.

Heck, I'd even love to see a more in depth "Deathwatch" one. Basically the 'pre-Marine' stuff, and possibly Scout to Tac Squad member before the Deathwatch 'ascension'

I'm personally having a bit of an issue seeing a very low ranking Rogue Trader group, personally (especially when the reasonings for Warrents of Trade extend to mostly long military service records, or becoming too powerful for ones own good in a social setting), but I do highly agree with the Ascension stuff. Profit Factor makes getting stuff so simple half the time, it'd be nice to have something higher to shoot for. And I'm not too keen on Inquisitors not only being more widely skilled than high Rank Traders, but higher in attributes, and RTs being resigned to 'powerful because they have money and lots of soldiers'.

Vanity Evolved said:

What I'm going for doesn't have to be the Warrant of Trade, but instead playing out acts to get to Warrant of Trade, or what the heir and his buddies are doing while waiting for daddy to conk off so they can then have said warrant.

personally i'd like to see a conventional Ascension book for RT. Sure, it takes the same time to get the RT's 8 ranks as it does to get DH's...what is it, 12 ranks? but i was always the person who liked to push for more. DH allows you to go from nobody to unsung hero to Untold Legend, if you use Ascension. In Rogue Trader, You can effectively go from Up and comer to Dynasty Champion, but then you kind of stop. Just like DH gives you the opportunity to see where your Acolyte goes after he's gone to the "top", i'd like to see what happens to Explorers when they do the same. You reach Rank Eight, and you've (theoretically) conquered the stars, reclaimed lost birthrights, endured unspeakable horrors, Saved the Imperium, Killed off your competitors, protected your interests, gotten the girl, kickstarted the dynasty, made a huge profit, and -against all odds- made it back in time for your little brother's eighteenth birthday. Now what? do you just settle down and leave the exploring to some younger Dynast? I think not.

I like the idea of low-end RT, whether it's playing a group of potential heirs or a some lower-deck types trying to get noticed I think it would make for a fun game.

It could also be used for a two-teir campaign where you play both the RT's inner circle and some low-level lackies, trading off as the action shifts.

Other things...

I'd like to see more on smaller ships, shuttles, fighters, guncutters etc. Dog fights are fun!

More new Xenos races, or at least Xenos who don't have a codex or models.

Demiurge/squats! Someone has to say it.

Maybe generational rules? Something that would let you play a dynasty where your character is succeeded be his heir etc etc and story arcs play out over centuries. A lot would depend on the quality of the adventures but it could be fun.

Kid Kyoto said:

A ruleset to create a dynasty would be awesome. That make me think about Lordly domains for Pendragon.

Something like the retrieval of gene-seed? In Deathwatch, that gets you a Fate Point and +5 to a statistic for your next character if your battle-brothers are capable of retrieving your gene-seed. Descendants could work in a similar fashion, not sure how you'd handle ancestors. Personal history origin path? Tracing your ancestors back to Terra, following their illustrious career in the Navy or somesuch...

One more, how about aliens that operate on a different scale than anything remotely human?

Obviously the table top game has limits to what can be put down and what's interesting to put down. But an RPG need not.

So maybe insects that form hive minds and achieve intelligence when gathered in numbers of a trillion or more?

Crystal lifeforms the size of mountains who move through space propelled psychically?

Massive armored giants miles high that move inches a year and ignore lance strikes (thinking of Jack Kirby's Celestials)?

And of course the giant space squids we keep seeing on the map!

You get the idea.

Kid Kyoto said:

This response and some of the others to the thread leave me with two reactions. The first was positive, in the sense that some really nifty ideas have come up, and some folks are even willing to look at the crunch in the current systems and hip-fire solutions. Also, Kid Kyoto, those kinds of spontaneous ideas are genuinely useful for anyone that may just be cruising the forums, and it leads to my second reaction.

My second reaction wasn't negative, either, but instead attempts to address a characteristic that has fallen on the FFG and other WH40KRPG (phew) forums: a mounting dearth of personal and community creativity. I feel that a lot of this has a lot to do with the actual size of the environment (broad stroke setting of rather incomprehensible proportion) and the fact that the community is fundamentally split between those who see these RPGs as simply a derivative from the wargame, and those who came to the RPG "fresh" or perhaps only from the fictional side. There are many other "arguments" or "perspectives," what have you, but the fundamental (and often conflicting) paradigms haven't come together to help create some inspired infrastructure for the behemoth that is WH40K.

I'm not swell at being concise, obviously. "What I'd love to see in RT..." are more community development threads like those rarer, or perhaps merely just taken for granted: inspiration, ideas, personal tweaks upon the WH40K canvas (there's certainly room for everyone). Threads in the past that have started out as the most mundane "crunch" questions about PC firearm choice, and have ended up as (possibly heated) founts for ideas, solutions, construction of the nooks and crannies that surround aspects of the game or setting we didn't even notice. And please, although everyone understands the answers can be whatever you want, there are still so many opportunities to share what other kinds of answers there could be. 'Cos this is about having fun at the end of days with space cathedrals, doom knights and the human wave, all without having to visit, right?

tl;dr: good stuff, want to see a lot more of it from the players and GMs, not as dependent on FFG to provide so many cool ideas.

I think there is good fun stuff going on, it is just harder to find. Part of that I blame on the forums. I think there should be a general 40k rpg forum with subforums for the different games. I mean, do we really need 4 different places to find 40k Fan ArtFiction?

There also isn't a good way to archive really good fan stuff (at least, not here, dark reign is does a better job). If I write a cool new class/background/ship/whatever,post it to the House Rules forum, nobody is going to see it after 6 months when it is on page 4.

If you take all the forums together, there is a lot of activity going on. But a lot of discussions are repeated in different places from those who aren't paying attention to all of the 40k forums.

Two words.

SPACE SKAVEN

Or some variation beyond "Use Hrud!" "Use Stryxis!"

Currently, I am buidling a 40K army using the Dark Eldar list to make Space Skaven. But my request isnt just really wanting Space Skaven, but a book that actually is dedicated to a new foe. A Rak'GolSlauhgtStryxisYu'Vath (or maybe all in one book) that details homeworlds, histories, gear, various versions of statsso forth.

Reading BFK 2 things jumped out me, both are art-related.

FFG's art has been great so far but after a while we need something other than flying cathedrals buzzing through space.

First I really wanted an in-scale chart of the different ships, something like this site - www.merzo.net/

Second I really wanted a cut-away viewgeneral floorplan of an imperial ship. There's lots of text of what element goes wherewhat they look like, a massive cutaway showing the flight decks, engines, gun chambers etc would have really sealed the deal.

Maybe a book with deckplans of different areas of a ship would work?