from france

okay we have to agree to disagree here. stil it 's not for me a moritat weapon. and ... bah it s up to everyone to define what a moritat should use or not.

the 8 spider said:

Yet the rules allow a Moritat to use one if he or she can do the Willpower Test. I could see it happen either due to circumstances (disarmed and only other weapon in range is chainsword) or because the character himself starts disregarding the style of his cult. In case of the latter I would not discount the possibility of him being shamed and even kicked out of the organization, though. Also, the player in question should be able to explain his character's actions, of course.

Thats a good point Lynata. Have the assassin pass a WP test in order to use it. If he does pass great, if not thats that. Also I think our GM could find some interesting consequences for a moritat disrespecting the code of conduct or using a forbidden weapon. I didnt expect this to be a popular thread but I guess I was wrong haha.

I would say 1) Tearing doesn't stack. The Flesh Render talent in Deathwatch doesn't cause "double Tearing", it adds another dice, from a separate effect, to the pool rolled. Now, this is a very similar effect to tearing, but it is very specifically worded and at no point does it refer to double tearing.

2) Chainswords do not count for the Moritat reaper's ability. At least I certainly wouldn't count it as such. Power swords, on the other hand, I would.

Power swords are a no go on the Moritat ability also. The power field does the cutting, not the blade. If the Moritat does not engage the power field and the sword has a blade, then the ability would apply.

Not all power swords have blades. They have been represented in the form of lightsabers, hilts with small antenna like rods extending from them, to full swords with the force field surrounding them.

As I said would still count them. They are edged, even if the blade isn't the main source of the damage. The fighting style would not change much from a normal sword.

And the odder forms of power weapons I would count seperately and wouldn't get it. Wires with the field surrounding them haven't really appeared since 1st edition, and lightsaber-esque ones have actually been given their own distinct rules, so can be differentiated from your normal power sword.

If the Power weapon has a sword edge, then I say yes if the power field is off. If it's on, then no, the disruptive power field is what causes damage when active, the blade (when active) is just an emitter for the field.

I have to agree with limitations.

In my opinion, Chainswords are simply NOT Moritat weapons. I realize that is is a fantasy game, and thus bringing RL into it too much spoils the fun, but it seems pretty obvious to me that fighting with a chainsword is nothing like fighting with a standard blade. Chainswords are almost universally depicted as single-edged, forward-facing, much wider than a standard blade, capable only of slashing and not stabbing, and even if they much be "revved" before they turn on they will still kick and pull their way out of a user's grip as they cut. They are similar to a sword only in broadly general shape and application.

Meanwhile, Moritat's expertise with the blade gives them preternatural skill with that single, restricted weapon type. It doesn't really matter how you choose to represent this mentally. Perhaps they utilize subtle twists of the blade upon striking, or make longer sweeping cuts than an uninitiated Acolyte does not know. But to me the line in the sand between "Bladed Weapons" such as Knives and Axes and Chainswords is a wide as it gets.

To get to the heart of my point, all polygon shapes have at least one edge. Does that mean a chair leg is an edged weapon?

The Cult fills a particular niche, and the addition of Tearing was intended to allow them to fill that niche without gimping themselves much. They use simple Swords, Daggers, Axes and what have you and yet their deadliness is on par with more modern weapons. To me, this is their defining trait. Notice that all the photos (of what are clearly Death Cult assassins, probably Moritat) in the books have them wielding "primitive" weapons.

This specialization is similar in some ways to the Metallican Gunslinger. A person wanting to play a two-pistol wielding badass was, before the advent of this specialization, forced to bite the bullet (hurr hurr puns) and play a sub-par character. Then they added this so that the same player could do so without feeling cheated in terms of power level.

They were clearly not intended, in my opinion, to be taken by people wishing to power-game their melee character but rather were added for an additional, comparable, and unique choice for an Assassin who wanted to stick to their roots. Voluntary limitation in exchange for increased power is an old RPG standby. It's flavorful, fills a niche that hadn't been explored, and in general makes for a lovely addition as long as you keep balance in mind.

Thus, Mono Lathe weapons all the way for a high powered Moritat; put a price tag on the Tox Dispenser (Into the Storm p. 127) if the character begins to feel they have no more room for improvement. The argument between "Primitive" Bladed Weapons such as Swords and Power Weapons is a more nuanced one, with less recourse to easy mental schema, and I won't get into it. Personally, I would not allow a Moritat to use power weapons, and if I were playing a Moritat I wouldn't want to.

Maybe I'm an idealist, but it's not hard to figure out where RAW needs to end and RAI needs to take over, because FFG writing generally abounds with loopholes that can be exploited by the so intentioned.

I was under the impression that FFG had previously clarified that chain weapons (as well as power weapons whilst the power field is activated) do not count, only weapons with a single blade, such as normal swords, axes, arrow-heads, etc, count for the ability.

MILLANDSON said:

I know that they ruled about power weapons, but if you could provide something that showed what the ruling was on chain weapons that would be awesome!!

I think that that trait "The bloody edge" shouldn't count with chainswords. The style of fighting with regular edged swords or knives is totaly diffrent from chainswords. In the description of this trait stays :" it's a deadly artistry of bloodletting". With chainswords you just rip through body of the enemy. With a regular sword you can strike precise hits in dangerous area causing bleeding e.t.c. With chainsword you just rip fragments of body, its not artistry

Besides I agree with "At last Forgot" that it would be against an oath of moritat to use modern weapons as he disdains such a weapons.

Your gut is right mate, weapon traits do not stack, you can't have a good quality lasgun that rolls twice to prevent jamming, by the same token you can't have a Tearing blade that gets a second tearing die in the hands of a Moritat.

As for whether or not a Moritat can use a Power Sword, I can see why some people may want to argue the point, but there's no reason they can't employ a Power Sword as it's an edged weapon and is expressly permitted by the spirit and letter of the rules and would be an unnecessary kick in the junk besides. An insanity that caused the character to eschew even advanced edged weapons such as power and mono swords in favor of crude medieval blades might be appropriate to a particularly mad or foolish Moritat though!

might not be relivant in DH but deamon weapons can have tearing and still be bladed.

no tech scorn from the guild and the type of inquisitor that would employ such "monsters" could very well be a oblationist or straight out radical and encourge them to use deamon weapons.....