The Eddard Stark thread inspired me to create this one.

So, let's get right to the point: All three Melisandres are awesome. Which one do you put in your decks, and why?

Depends on the deck, really. If I need to slow down my opponents to give my deck more time to get rolling, core set Mel is sweet. In a fast deck with some stealth or control, Defenders Mel can really accelerate things. I haven't built a deck yet where I would pick Brotherhood Mel over one of the others, not sure what that would look like, but I do like her ability. I think you would have to use her in a deck with more power manipulation (e.g. Eastwatch) to get the most out of her.

i still take core set mel over the other two.

the control is passive, she gives herself a boost, has renown, and can boost other elements of the deck....its almost a no brainer for me.

I personally like the one from Return of Others. Works nicely in a power rush deck.

All of them are good, depends on the type of deck. I just prefer the one that grants additional power for dominance and unopposed power and intrigue challenges.

I'm partial to Defenders Me. The ability to get three extra power a turn (even if it is not always realized) does create opportunities. Coupled with the Irn Throne that auto-wins dominance, that's two power for winning. And I've had an opponent block an INT challenge they couldn't have won anyway just to stop me from getting the extra power, which helps get through the later challenges.

I have seen Brotherhood Mel put to very good use. It makes people hesitant to use thei renown characters since Mel can not only steal their power, but kill them as well.

Core Set Mel is great in an Asshai deck, or against renown heavy and Brotherhood decks.

If I am building a deck where CS Mel or Brotherfood Mel is likely to be the better choice, I pick that one. Otherwise, I start with Defenders Mel and work from there.

More than any other character, as people have said, it depends on the deck.

Fast rush?

Slow/medium rush?

Control?

Lars said:

Hmm.

Rogue30 said:

Hmm?

Lars said:

You can tell who really plays Baratheon and who is just theorizing absed on the responses in this thread.

Lars has the right of it. Core set Mel is far and away the best version. Bara isn't great at unopposed and can't count on Domiannce wins - so the accelerant Mel is nto nearly afst enough. Core Set Mel ahs won me (almost by herself0 at least ten games over the past three years - more than a few at high level events. She is a House defining and metagame defining card that needs to be accounted for in the design process of many decks.

Baratheon isn't the best at unopposed. Still, it's doable.

Guyard Morrigen gives all your Lord characters stealth. Renly and Melisandre should be able to get unopposed on decks lacking intrigue icons. The Fox's Teeth allows you to attack unopposed if they don't have knelt characters. I like the Epic Battles Salladhor Saan that has stealth and also grants 2 power on dominance. Edric Storm and Devan Seaworth have stealth. You can run Varys as well. Smuggler's Cove is a cheap location that gives stealth to characters. Core set Stannis and Ser Eldon Estermont have a nice ability for unopposed challenges.

Her ability is so good that it would be overpowered in a house that is full of stealth and ways to make unopposed challenges.

Baratheon has Vigilant characters and Knight of Flowers that doesn't kneel unless there are cards in shadows. That seems to synergize really well with winning dominance to me.

Stag Lord said:

You don't have to play her out of Baratheon

Saturnine said:

This is true. I haven't built a pure Baratheon deck since CCG days. I have built Bara/NW and Neutral Nobles, both of which use DotN Mel. I have seen Holy themed decks use BwB Mel to dangerous effect. The question is which of her abilities do you want for your deck power negation/Str boost, possible additional power or possible kill?

If I was playing Bara rush, then yes, Core Set is likely the best. With Power of Faith she boosts herself and other Assahi Holy while attacking, and that's worth 3 power right there. And I would run it as Holy, trying to get Fat Bob with the attachment that gives the Holy Crest. I've seen that done to Beric Dondarian with devastating effect.

I like all the Melisandre cards. My two favorites are the core set version and the kill Mel. I even like the core set Mel out of house to prevent my opponents's renown rush in matchups where my opponent plays a lot of renown characters (oddly enough, this mostly occurs against Baratheon decks). Core Mel in my Stark deck was very nice.

Saturnine said:

Quite true, ser. She is truly an awesome weapon in Greyjoy.

Stag Lord said:

Sorry man, I just need to do the due diligence on this one. "At least ten games over the last three years?" How many other wins do you have in that period? And what "high level events" are we talking about? I mean, it can't be Black Friday... not if a scrub like Erick can show up to win that often.

Although I've never played Baratheon, I have to concede that the Core Set version is the best Melisandre. Each version can be used effectively in the right deck, but CS version shuts down Brotherhood, The Blackfish and more. Then there's the buff, which is always going to be useful, and will at least effect herself and most likely a couple of others.

Gargoyle said:

And any Brotherhood player is going to be running Milk, Nightmares or both, just to shut her down long enough to win. When my Brotherhood deck is going against Bara, I save those cards just for her.

I run defenders in my Bara shadows deck. If I get get a few of the mechanics rolling, my opponent needs about 4 characters to stop me from going on two unopposed challenges a turn. And I use wildfire for that reason specifically. And the pictures better.

I understand the +1 to asshai is nice, the stopping their renown is nice, but she losses the +1 when she kneels to attack, so really its just renown and stopping their renown. is there something im missing?

RE: CS Melisandre.
Aside from having a greater Dominance phase STR potential, there is this card here: The Power of Faith .
With x2 of this in your plot deck. Your CS Melisandre provides +1 STR to all Ashai for 2 rounds for every challenge when on the attack (preferably as the first player).

Nothing outside of what I considered.

The latest one gives you renown, power stealing, and a kill effect on intrigue challenges. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, because taking a gold off of KL Eddard or Balon or whomever for a kill effect goes down pretty smooth.

Maester_LUke said:

What the heck was that? An echo from the past? A whisper from a once feared foe? A voice in the wilderness?

Hardly wortht eh tiem to respond, nevertheless; i stand by my statment. The Li meta keeps me busy and stark sees a lot of play, as does the Viper. The high level results i was referring to were not Black Fridays - but NY Regionals in 2009 and 2010 the latter ebing a second round game where my opponent, had 21 power in total - most of it on characters, but Mel kept me in the game long enough for me to steal the win. I am alos referencing a game late in the summer of 2008 with Mainn before his retirement, where he had a **** fast Brothers deck that i was able to hold down with her (remeber - NY played ITE and 5K in our "Standard" format all the way through).

Back to the wastelands with you.

Stag Lord said:

I will suffer my banishment gladly, in deference to my lrod of Stags.

Maester_LUke said:

Luke, I believe you meant Dragon Worshipper. I wouldn't take any opinions regarding playing Bara from him too seriously. If the topic were Targ, then sure, he's the expert, but Bara, c'mon.

Cut to the core, ser! Truly - your blade thrusts deep....

Anyway - yeah Core Set Mel because Bara already has enough ways to win and she is the best way to slow down another aggro deck in an increasingly aggro environment.

Depends on the deck
Depends on the meta
/thread