So after the first try when I didn't read the rules right I decided to start over and roll up a random chapter. Problem is I rolled 99... my progenitor is the Space Wolves. Gotcha, cool.

Then after I was done I remember they didnt HAVE an successors... so... any come up with good reasons?

Could go with their geneseed is unknown but shares a lot in common with Space Wolves.

Or simply do what I'd do and re-roll Space Wolves or Salamanders, since they don't have successor chapters.

Madadh said:

They have no known Successors. There's no particular reason that another attempt to create a Chapter from their Gene-Seed couldn't be attempted.

kenshin138 said:

Meh. Seems a waste. The random chapter came together very well otherwise. Just seems odd that it was on the chart at all.

HappyDaze said:

Point.

Now I just have to justify how a Fleet based chapter has beastial companions as its 'Special Wargear'. Guess the old 'our planet got blown up' works.

Madadh said:

Those beastial companions could be failed/genetically incompatible attempts to create members of your chapter. There's lots of room on the black decks of a spacecraft for such beings to roam.

HappyDaze said:

I like that one. It's evil.

Madadh said:

The Space Wolf fanboys would have felt slighted if they weren't included on the chart.

HappyDaze said:

They had one, and only one second founding chapter, the Wolf Brothers, but they were put down (No pun intended) due to genetic insatiability with the Canis helix. And as such the AdMech has opted not to use them since see http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=132379 for more reference.

Y'know, as a Space Wolf Fanboy, I feel slighted that we ARE on the list... We're too badass to let our Legion get split up!

There's lots of ways you could create a 'successor' chapter for the Space Wolves. Like HappyDaze said, there's only been one 'known' chapter. Fenris rarely agrees or plays with the Administratum; they've repelled 3 separate Inquisitorial purges, IIRC. So, having a hidden successor Chapter isn't beyond belief. Here's a couple of ideas:

1) A lost Great Company returns and is formed into it's own Chapter. This is the idea I've had for my own Space Wolves army, and there have been some Companies that have disappeared over time only to return besides the 13th. With the structure of the Space Wolves, any lost force near Great Company strength (which can be almost a full Codex Chapter size in itself) might be difficult to integrate, especially if the Wolf Lord is still alive. "Sorry, you're no longer a Wolf Lord. But we have assigned you to young Ragnar's Wolf Guard", wouldn't go over very well.

2) Records have been lost before, especially regarding to foundings of successor chapters. Perhaps the Chapter was founded, but the official rocords have been lost. And it's not like Fenris would keep niggling little paperwork to back up the official Administatum records.

3) The record of the Chapter's creation was suppressed. Again, this is (relatively) common. Perhaps the Chapter was created as a way of giving the Space Wolves' gene-seed another go after the Wolf Brothers incident, only the Administratum wanted to keep things hushed up in case somethign went wrong again.

4) A successor Chapter created to preserve the Wolves' gene-seed in case the Wolves are wiped out. Administratum and Inquisitorial attacks notwithstanding, the Thousand Sons renegades hate the Sons of Russ with a passion and could someday come by to put old debts to paid.

Hrm... as much as I like the pure random approach might have to modify things a little bit, like moving the 'when' to the 1 result on the table of 'we don't know'.

Atm its 35th Mil, Space Wolves prog, based on a fleet with their flaw being pride in the colors. And their philosophy is Steel over Flesh, with doctrine of Shock and Awe.

I dunno about you, but when someone in our group does a custom Chapter it's never completely random.

I'm not a fan of randomness in character creation, and I extend that to not liking random Chapter generation since the point of making a Chapter usually is to follow it with characters that are members of the created Chapter.

One good way to do a successor chapter is to take the initial concept and thoroughly twist it around.

Look at the Charcoradons from the Badab War books: Alan Bligh did a great job here of making them extremely distinctive. The Raven Guard gene-traits make successors pale, dark-eyed, stealthy, and specialising in sneak attacks. As such the Raven Guard seem sort of noble, if tragic ciphers. As Charcoradons, however, they become terrifying voidborn monsters.

Space wolves, with the Canis Helix, become grim, bestial, clannish and aggressive. Imagine those traits imposed in a totally different context. Perhaps change the image of the chapter from one animal to another, too. It worked for the Carchoradons... How about this:-

The Sabrecats are a minor chapter who ferociously guard the Metus Nebula in the Segmentum Obscuras. This vast region of dead space connects no fewer than eight Imperial Sectors, and is haunted by dozens of xenos civilisations and celestial anomalies.

The Sabrecats' founding is obscure, and they would appear to have expended much energy to keep their origins secret from all but the High Lords of Terra. Their fortress monastery is unknown to all but the highest reaches of the Administratum, and their geneseed is tithed directly to Terra, as they are beyond the reach of any local officials capable of processing it. Some suspicious Inquisitors have speculated that their choice of such a desolate and obscure hunting ground was made for this precise reason.

A notoriously insular chapter, they have nonetheless retained an enviable record of honourable victories. They prefer to act alone, without other Imperial agencies in attendance, and have shown a marked reluctance to involve themselves in large scale crusades, or indeed any action which would require them to work alongside allied forces.

On the rare occasions when they have done so, they have been variously reported as bearing black and gold armour of the finest quality. Their chapter symbol is the Sabrecat, an ancient Terran apex predator that has since been archao-gene retrieved and reintroduced to many human occupied worlds.

In appearance, the Sabrecats are said to be dark skinned and possessing what are presumably transplanted cosmetic fangs. Commentators have speculated that as these fangs are only normally borne by the eldest and most senior officers of the Chapter that they must be some sort of mark of seniority. The cosmetic transplantation of fangs is unknown amongst the wider Astartes, but this must be viewed in the context of forces which routinely engage in practices such as branding, tattooing and ritual scarification of its members.

The sabrecats specialise in heavy ambush tactics, patiently waiting for months, often in complete radio silence, before striking with massive force. They are expert spacefarers, but do not shirk from the planetary assault duties which typically form the lion's share (so to speak) of the Astartes' duties. In combat, they are savage, unyielding foes, who will not retreat even in the face of total annihilation once committed. They have a marked preference for close range weaponry, and gleefully engage in piratical boarding actions against enemy starships, leading to the gradual accumulation of a powerful fleet, largely consisting of smaller vessels.

In structure, they appear to be a broadly codex chapter, though recent evidence (cross ref file PT5899/M41 806 Culdia Drop Site Massacre) suggests that they are substantially under-strength, perhaps by as much as five companies.

And so on. If it wasn't for the fangs and the insularity, they'd come across as just another chapter... but you can put them together in the full knowledge that you've created a successor chapter for the Space Wolves. They'd fit the concept of a successor that no one (except the High Lords) knows about. Perhaps even THEY don't know they're a Space Wolves successor, and regard their long fangs as a shameful genetic fault...leading to their secrecy and desire to avoid other Imperial organisations.

Successor chapters don't actually have to be that "wolfy" just as long as you get the basics in there!

The randomness of the chapter creation amused me, just because of the interesting combinations would could end up with out of it. When it comes to character creation itself I'm all for planning it out aside from a few items (like the armor history)

Or the infamous 4chan 'Flesh Helms' chapter, the Emperor's Most Inept Marines

Another idea for a SW successor chapter is simply that they were created without the Space Wolves knowledge. I would assume that the Wolves would be greatly offended if their geneseed was used without their permision or heck even without telling them.

As a result of this all knowledge of who their founding chapter is was destroyed.

You can destroy as many records as you like, but space wolf genetic traits are kinda hard to miss...

Unless:-

• they keep their helmets on
• and/or pull out their incisors
• and/or have totally different heraldry
• and/or operate beyond the bounds of the Imperium
• and/or operate a Codex Chapter
• and/or have developed a tactical philosophy markedly different from their progenitors
• and/or recruit from a planetary population of a different race

and so on...

And: any biomagus or apothecary who ever checks the geneseed rolls a '00' on their medicae check.

Well that assumes the said biomagus or apothecary has access to both sets of geneseed and permission to run tests on them... And I imagine that's a rare occurance.

No chapter is going to let a random Adeptus Mechanicus gene-magi run tests on their marines. Depending upon their oaths to the High Lords of Terra, they may only be bound to allow specified senior Terran or Martian magi check their geneseed for purity. Look at the Minotaurs: they're a cursed founding chapter with a history of bumping off even Inquisitorial agents who try to dig into their (highly suspicious) geneseed.

And the only time apothecaries from other chapters will examine geneseed is when a marine is seconded to the Deathwatch. One presumes that Chapters providing marines to the Deathwatch ensure Deathwatch apothecaries swear an oath that ensures patient confidentiality. If they didn't, you can bet that chapters like the Blood Angels, with their slowly degenerating geneseed, would refuse to provide personnel to the chapter.

Given they've been tithing their geneseed for 10,000 years, I would never rule out any Space Wolf successors completely.

Lightbringer said:

You'd think that someone would bother running a test or two on all that tithe material...

Tithes *are* of course taken partly to test the geneseed for flaws, purity and other issues.

Yes, but these tithes would be taken by the Terran authorities. The same Terran authorities who are quite happy to use the Minotaurs (who have at best "chimeric" geneseed and at worst Traitor geneseed) as their enforcers.You're assuming that the same authorities who test the tithed material represent the mainstream of the Imperium...in fact the tithing of the Astartes is clearly done at an extremely high level of authority.

The Imperium is largely run at a local level by Sector governors who may well have no idea of the full history and origin of the Chapters assigned to their area of influence...and even at that level, as Peers of the Imperium, Chapter Masters are in a strong position (both legally and militarily) to oppose any steps to enforce scrutiny of their geneseed by the locals.

Furthermore, you're also assuming that even the Terran bigwigs have clear records of past chapters and foundings. This is almost certainly untrue. The Imperium is big and messy enough to have lost vast swathes of its history over the millenia.

I'm not saying a Space Wolf successor chapter could be kept a complete secret...I'm saying that if you're a Chapter Master and the High Lords of Terra are happy to help keep your Space Wolf geneseed origin a secret, it will remain a secret from 99.999% of the Imperium.

A new secret Chapter to fight Chaos...after all, even the Emperor himself had sent the most mutated loyal legion against the most mutated traitor legion.

While I was looking for Chapters to use in DoW 2: Retribution o/ I did notice that one of the Chapters (sorry, can't remember which one) was said to be made from mixing Dark Angel and Space Wolf geneseed. Don't know how cannon that was (it being Lexicanium) but it's an option.