I just completed my first game of MoM and as the Keeper resoundingly defeated the Investigators (Gloria Goldberg and Ashcan Pete). I chose objective 1B, so samples were my goal. Due to being able to take a sample and then command minion I was able to get two samples to the altar before the completion of event 3. The investigators had no means of keeping up with my minion running away, and as soon as it got past the locked door they couldn't get to it.

I'm wondering if anybody else has encountered this, since the minion can move 3 spaces the investigators can only keep up with the minion and not attack, or is this a problem that happened because of the particular investigators involved and the lack of them having any weapons?

I played as a keeper and noticed something similar or maybe even more unbalanced. I stock piled threat tokens until the zombie showed up took a sample, moved away and put it on the alter. Repeated with the maniac, and then had the shoggoth run out the door. I didn't see/read anything saying I couldn't use the "command minion" action more than once, which made it nearly impossible for the investigators to catch up to any of the monster to even try to stop them.

Ok... I just didn't look to hard, it's on the **** card.

Same scenario last night, our Keeper reduced us to fighting an Elder Sign-powered holding action in the Foyer before the third event. My question is whether you can take more than one sample with a single monster? There didn't seem to be anything in the rules preventing it, and we had our hands full with a maniac for one round too long to catch the zombie with the samples.

The ruling we eventually settled on was there wasn't any reason the zombie couldn't carry two samples. The balance issue there seems to be that it's a big risk for the Keeper as one more round with the zombie in line of sight and Joe Diamond would have splattered it on the nearest wall, but it didn't end up working out that way. Was our reading correct, or is it one sample per monster?

Some things to mention here:

Monsters move 2 spaces a turn, not 3. They only move 3 on one occasion, if the Keeper has 2 threat and spends 1 to take a sample and another to move it 2 spaces after the free one from take sample.

Investigators move 3 spaces with run. They would be able to catch up to the monster unless the sample was taken very close to the cermony room. Also, there is at lest 1 item (guitar) that can me used to manipulate how fast the monster can get to the cermony room. (in fact, since the monster has to be in the cermony room at the START of the keepers turn, it is entirely impossible to just keep playing the guatiar and pull the monster out 1 space every turn preventing it being there on the start of the keepers turn, and giving enough time for a investigator to catch it).

It says in the book indirectly that as monster can have more then one sample token.

Bottom left of page 12 reads:

"When a monster with sample tokens is killed, all its sample tokens are discarded."

Good catch on the multiple samples! I remember reading that line but I didn't connect it to the rest with all the other rules we were trying to figure out. Thanks for that!

We never did find the guitar. Our big mistake was ganging up on the maniac the Keeper sent as a distraction while the sample zombie got away. By the time we put the nutter with the axe down the zombie was too far away to catch up to. I suspected samples = very bad but wasn't entirely prepared for it to be the start of the endgame. Know better next time!

FrostyWolf said:

Sorry Frosty. Rules say, Movement: ...he may move his figure to one adjacent space. Run Action: spend this action to move to an adjacent space.

A total possible movement of two spaces.

K xx

Your playing the game totally wrong. You get two movment and one action per turn, please look over the rule book again. Movement + movement + run = 3.

Guitar is a starting item card, I was just using it as a example.

Mr. K said:

Sorry to you as well Mr. K haha, Investigators receive 2 Movement Steps and 1 Action Step per turn =

1 Movement Step+1 Movement Step+1 Action Step (Run) = 3 movement

FrostyWolf said:

The problem that came up in my game was the fact that since there were two investigators I was getting two threat a round, which I could then just into moving the minion 3 spaces (by taking a sample and then being commanded). The maniac that I brought out and tried that with first they took out by constantly stunning before I could really get started, but the zombie was able to get the 3 spaces away which meant that the investigators had no possible means of stopping the zombie. They had no weapons so would have to run to catch up, which means then I can get a sample and command again, meaning again they have to run.

The problem as I see it, is that investigators without a ranged option have maybe one chance of stopping the minion with the samples before it gets far enough away to never be caught.

This would only happen in two cases

1) If you had 6 threat tokens to start it off. 4 to spawn a manic on a lone investigator, then 1 to take sample and 1 to move. As long as the other investigator was far enough away and niether had ranged weapons, you could then do what you said. At that point tho that would only work once unless they DID chase it and give you the chance to get another sample, otherwize, once you dropped it off you wouldn't be able to summon another manic till they killed the first.

2) If a investigator ends his turn in a room with a monster. Then you could on keeper step, spend 1 to grab and 1 to run. Then, as long as the other player was far enough away, and neither had ranged weapons, you could do what you said.

In all other cases, you would have to move the monster to their space, then grab the sample and move one away. At this point the investigators would have a FULL turn to retailiate. Meaning one could pass you to cut you off if your keep running by while one attacks, both could attack, etc, etc.

While i do feel that under just the right situation you could grab one 'free' sample, it would be enough to break this senerio.

Could we also be seeing an indicator that having an investigator team without ranged weapons is not a good idea? Not all investigators are necessarily equal at each level of play - one may shine with a couple of marksmen to help them and be a dud without them etc.

Rob

FrostyWolf said:

It may be that the reason it was a problem in the game that I played is because of the particular investigator setup, with Ashcan Pete and Gloria Goldberg. So Ashcan could attack the minion and hurt it a little, and Gloria had no chance of doing anything to it (3 in both dex and str). The problem I guess I have is that since you only need 2 samples for 1B it means that the investigators have to deal with any minion with a sample or the end game starts real quick.

Also keep in mind that there is a BARRIER object in the basement. The investigators could move the barrier to block off the route to the altar, forcing the monsters to stop and attack the barrier before they can take the sample to the altar.

dvang said:

In the game I played the minion was home free when it got into the basement landing, since they could not yet get through the lock there.

It was still an option if they had the chance. Locks are solved during Movement, so as long as it was solved they would be able to move through the lock and have an action to move the barrier.

<shrug>

I agree, though, that the game probably plays best with 3+ investigators, although I haven't ever played with anything less than 4 yet. The investigators really need to do two things:

- Find the clues

- Kill monsters

So at least having a smart investigator (for puzzles) and an investigator that starts with a weapon. I think it might be possible to play with 1 or 2 investigators then Gloria and/or Harvey with combat spells might make the best of both worlds, although Joe Diamond is a good fairly balanced investigator.

dvang said:

not when the Lock is a magical one which you can't open without getting it from somewhere else in the mansion.

we had a 4man game and the manic rushed one of us as we were splitting up to search the mansion, he got three samples from the player (three because the player was chasing him tyring to kill him with his fists) and scooted through the magic lock about two turns after we found the first clue.

Well, then you learn a valuable lession: Don't. Split. Up. So. Much.

It's not like you can get clue 2 before getting clue 3 anyway, since apparently it's always locked behind a silver/bronze/magic/... lock and you need the key/phrase/password you found at the previous clue.
Search for clue 3, based on the story the Keeper told you, find clue 3, search clue 2, find clue 2, search clue 1, find clue 1, finish objective.
Kill monsters when they appear and slow you down, don't kill them when you don't need to (and have better things to do).

If the maniac can grab 3 tokens, something was done wrong. Better luck next time

When I played this I had a similar situation, but the early resolution and loss was made to feel more like the players fault.

On the first turn they decided to split up and search the house. One of the players (there were 3 investigators, I was keeper) went down into the cellar kicking open the jammed door on their 2nd (maybe 3rd go) at which point the Maniac appeared, took a sample and command minioned into the altar room. On the next go the angry player went "Steal my hair/teeth/whatever! I'm going to kill that **ing Maniac" and chased him to the space outside the altar room, which meant that on my next turn I was able to command him out to the investigator and then take sample back to the altar in the one go. Cue Shoggoth next turn, I think at this stage we may still have yet to resolve the first event card.

Meanwhile the other players had kept on exploring in opposite directions, so when I reveal that they have to stop the shoggoth getting out the front door they are about as split up and far away from the main action as it is possible to be. Meaning I was able to use various mythos cards to keep one of the investigators from even getting back into the foyer and participating in the Shoggoth hunt.

That said, the investigator with the pistols nearly killed the Shoggoth, so I think if they'd stuck together a bit more and all been involved in the beatdown, I don't think the fact that I got the Shoggoth out as early as is possible would have stopped them winning. I think as keeper, I'd prefer the option in that scenario to reveal the objective and summon the Shoggoth at a time of my choosing once I've got the samples on the altar, not as soon as that condition is met.

vagabond_666 said:

You could always just have the monster holding the sample to stand to the side of the altar until you are ready to place it.