Umbranus said:
I've found that the Hand Flamer is a pretty sweet Signature Wargear pick for dealing with Hordes that get into melee. Getting 1d5+3 hits is nice for anyone that's not an Assault Marine, and if you have Cleanse and Purify the 2d5+3 hits is simply awesome.
HappyDaze said:
Flame weapons are VERY effective against Hordes.They don't get their Agility roll to avoid, so you just get hits. Heavy Flamer on a Dev with Unrelenting Devastation and Cleanse and Purify gives 2d5+8 hits each of which inflicts one automatic damage (per Unrelenting Devastation which causes extra damage upon a hit) and another if it does sufficient damage. That's pretty nasty.
It's actually 3d5+8 for a dev with UD and cleanse and purify. 1d5+8 from heavy flamer, +1d5 from c&p and a final +1d5 from UD. Pretty swell.
Which means it's also 3d5+3 for the same dev with a little hand flamer.
Charmander said:
Yeah, good point. WS is pretty easy to raise, though.
Charmander said:
Moving back a bit and being off topic, was anyone else amused that it was charmander who knew exactly how to use a flamer?
Just sayin'
Crap, they're on to me 
Haha
Siranui said:
Hellfire is freakin' awesome stuff. Let's face it: You aren't going to be using your special ammunition unless you're up against something serious such as stealers or larger. And Hellfire both completely ignores natural armour and rolls up on a 9+. That's just the thing for shreading stealers and broodlords. Your only other options are Kraken (moot really, considering the Pen of a normal bolt shell will deal with most threats fine, so 7 is kinda overkill), Stalker (which is useful, but niche), or Metalstorm. And you only use metalstrom against hordes, and you use a bolter with it's full auto against hordes, rather than a pistol (which is what you're buying ammo for). Plus Hordes are seldom as serious an immediate threat as -say- stealers.
Probably take a fire selector for your pistol (actually...belay that...just buy another pistol for 5 points and put the special ammo in there) so you don't end up wasting speciality ammunition against lesser foes. Then if a stealer does get close to you, you can empty some Hellfire into it in melee.
Yeah, haha. I didn't notice it at first either.
Hmm... I'll probably take Hellfire, then. Seems pretty useful.
Oh, also, where're the rules for firing pistols into combat? I can't find them.
Good idea with the extra pistol, though.
Oh, also; our weapons have been changed. We house ruled that all Bolt weapons do 3 less damage, all Plasma weapons get +1D10 damage and all Melta weapons get +2 damage. It makes the choices not so obvious.
Charmander said:
That's easy. Nothing I've seen indicates that wou can't throw grenades further than short range.
Short is SB *3. With a Str of 40 in Powerarmor and thy the thy strength be legend that's (4*2)+2+1=11 11*3= 33m range.
So 66m for long range and 99m for extreme range.
And even if you play it that you only can throw it at normal range you can still use feat of strengh to increase your unnatural multiplier by 1 for rank turns.
You think that's good? In 2 Strength Advancements I'll be able to throw them 125 metres. Assuming extreme range 
If I'm calculating it right... SB6*2=12+2=14*3=42*3=126
SubtleCadaver said:
You think that's good? In 2 Strength Advancements I'll be able to throw them 125 metres. Assuming extreme range
If I'm calculating it right... SB6*2=12+2=14*3=42*3=126
126 metres*
BrotharTearer said:
It's actually 3d5+8 for a dev with UD and cleanse and purify. 1d5+8 from heavy flamer, +1d5 from c&p and a final +1d5 from UD. Pretty swell.
Which means it's also 3d5+3 for the same dev with a little hand flamer.
16+3d5 with Storm of Iron, too...
Without picking up a dice.
Flamers rock.
The melta/plasma choice becomes less obvious with the up-statted weapons of those types in RoB, that were blatantly put in there to address the issue. I personally don't think there's much need to change the base ones in the light of that, but if you don't have RoB, then yeah: It makes them more worthwhile. As would changing the frankly crummy Volatile rules so that instead you get RF on a 9-10, instead of the auto-confirm (which is useless in the game against Xenos!)
Siranui said:
Oh, I've got it, but I've basically just gone ahead and fixed the basic weapons anyway.
Good point on changing Volatile, too.
Also... I never realized how restricted (gear-wise) you are just starting off...
If genestealer is close to you, I see it feasible for them to dodge by moving to side of you where cone of fire would be behind them.
BrotharTearer said:
HappyDaze said:
Flame weapons are VERY effective against Hordes.They don't get their Agility roll to avoid, so you just get hits. Heavy Flamer on a Dev with Unrelenting Devastation and Cleanse and Purify gives 2d5+8 hits each of which inflicts one automatic damage (per Unrelenting Devastation which causes extra damage upon a hit) and another if it does sufficient damage. That's pretty nasty.
It's actually 3d5+8 for a dev with UD and cleanse and purify. 1d5+8 from heavy flamer, +1d5 from c&p and a final +1d5 from UD. Pretty swell.
Which means it's also 3d5+3 for the same dev with a little hand flamer.
This does not appear to be correct. Flame weapons do NOT have the Blast Quality, so they don't get the +1d5 from UD. A Heavy Flamer gets an additional point of damage to a Horde's Magnitude per hit scored thanks to UD (as it's a Heavy Weapon), but non-Heavy Weapons get nothing extra from it. I checked the Errata, and none of the changes to UD or the clarification for using Flame weapons against a Horde changes anything related to this.
SubtleCadaver said:
Siranui said:
Oh, also, where're the rules for firing pistols into combat? I can't find them.
Page 140 where it talks about weapon types. It says pistols may be used to make a standard attack while engaged in melee.
As for flamers, our group loves them simply becuase they are death to Hordes. A heavy flamer, flamer, and the Librarian's Avenger chew through mass hordes in no time. It is very annoying that it's so difficult to hit genestealers with them though. You need Clease and purify just to give yourself a decent chance. Still, if you can catch several under one shot then it can pay off. But any Space Hulk veteran is wondering what happened to one of his best weapons.
Defenstrator said:
SubtleCadaver said:
Siranui said:
Oh, also, where're the rules for firing pistols into combat? I can't find them.
Page 140 where it talks about weapon types. It says pistols may be used to make a standard attack while engaged in melee.
As for flamers, our group loves them simply becuase they are death to Hordes. A heavy flamer, flamer, and the Librarian's Avenger chew through mass hordes in no time. It is very annoying that it's so difficult to hit genestealers with them though. You need Clease and purify just to give yourself a decent chance. Still, if you can catch several under one shot then it can pay off. But any Space Hulk veteran is wondering what happened to one of his best weapons.
Oh, thanks.
Yeah. I might just pick one up.
Defenstrator said:
But any Space Hulk veteran is wondering what happened to one of his best weapons.
I was too busy celebrating about having more than 6 shots, to be honest.
I always though of the flamers as following the blast rules, so if you'r stuck in a corridor you'll have to be able to move out of range of the flamers cone (which is kinda hard in a corridor)
Personally though if you find it hard to hit them with flames and have RoB i would use the Astartes Assault Shotgun simply put a bolter with higer RoF but no pen. Also comes with Scatter quality for those extra hits in very short range. Can be equipped with Slugs (+ pen and Felling, but no scatter) which are very effective against monster with Unnatural Thoughness
Bassemandrh said:
Personally though if you find it hard to hit them with flames and have RoB i would use the Astartes Assault Shotgun simply put a bolter with higer RoF but no pen. Also comes with Scatter quality for those extra hits in very short range. Can be equipped with Slugs (+ pen and Felling, but no scatter) which are very effective against monster with Unnatural Thoughness
Awesome idea! I totally forgot about shotguns, but it may just be worth it.
Thanks
Although shotguns are a bit whacky, rules-wise. I recommend changing them so that the scatter effect does NOT do anything at point blank range, and only works at short range. Can't help thinking that must have been a typo.
Yeah, you are right.