Charmander said:

Charmander said:

I think some SMs would take an insult from some scum lighter than a not so well formulated commend by an importand imperial commander.
My reasoning is: If the scum insults the marine it dos nothing. But if the commander doesn't watch his tongue that's degrading the marine's aothority, possibly even in front of imperial grunts.

But every reaction would strongly depend on the specific SM in question, his chapter and his personal demeanor.
Some would, being confronted by a scom , perhaps be reminded of their own youth.

if i remember it right whole team was around 14 ascended level, mentioned Interrogator, primaris psyker, Magos, Desperado, Judge.

In case of Desperado, he hated Adeptus Astartes with his whole black heart. And if my memory serves right half of his hive world were executed for rebelion caused by hunger, marine chapter master in command of stoping rebelion demanded half adult men and women burned. Next was campaign with plague marine sorceror, then some alpha legion showed campaign later and few other cases of both renegade or loyalist as enemies. He was having reason to hate every marine ever, for him every marine was heretic. And rest of team would follow him, even if that mean slaughter of other imperial factions. (common thing in our very political campaigns, and that team killed few loyal marines before for no other reason that following different agenda)

And for all who doubt that 5 marines would fall at end of turn 2, Magos+Primaris Psyker.

boruta666 said:

That is a motivation, alright - but how the warp did someone like that end up working for the Inquisition? And why does he only hate Marines? Surely that rebellion involved more than just an Astartes strike force, not to mention that the Imperium in general and the Inquisition in particular are all about this kind of work?

Lynata said:

couse i only mentioned things important to "why he hated space marines" ?

Lynata said:

Pardon, Inferno Pistols, none of this dual wielding basic weapon shenanagins.

Charmander said:

Jetpack, Dual Inferno pistols, Power Armour, Kinky Faith, Goth Haircut, to mention few, and its not even ascended gear standard flying nun with gun wargear. (But yes i agree Sororitas from BoM are so OP that only Blood Angel Assaults are of similar level of munchkinism)

Charmander said:

Inferno Pistols, or Astartes Inferno Pistols?

But yes, if the dice gods are merciful such a character might even succeed in causing a few wounds. That the 2nd pistol will increase the 1st ones damage would work in favor of the shooter, as it will allow her to punch through the target's UT for a change. The additional penetration would be useless, of course, but 3d10+2 per attack (for a total of ~1-26 wounds after UT) might hurt. The real question would likely be, what about the backlash?

boruta666 said:

Jetpack, Dual Inferno pistols, Power Armour, Kinky Faith, Goth Haircut, to mention few, and its not even ascended gear

Which might be because Sororitas Ascended gear offers no upgrades to this. Unless you want to discuss the two Munchkin Mantles whose names should have been swapped.

Lynata said:

Charmander said:

Pardon, Inferno Pistols, none of this dual wielding basic weapon shenanagins.

Inferno Pistols, or Astartes Inferno Pistols?

But yes, if the dice gods are merciful such a character might even succeed in causing a few wounds. That the 2nd pistol will increase the 1st ones damage would work in favor of the shooter, as it will allow her to punch through the target's UT for a change. The additional penetration would be useless, of course, but 3d10+2 per attack (for a total of ~1-26 wounds after UT) might hurt. The real question would likely be, what about the backlash?

boruta666 said:

Jetpack, Dual Inferno pistols, Power Armour, Kinky Faith, Goth Haircut, to mention few, and its not even ascended gear

Which might be because Sororitas Ascended gear offers no upgrades to this. Unless you want to discuss the two Munchkin Mantles whose names should have been swapped.

last time i checked if Sororitas Ascend she must chose Ascended carrer that means that Ascended wargear rules will be in effect.

boruta666 said:

Ah. Are we talking about a former Sororitas character having taking a different Ascended career (thus effectively leaving her Order), or an Ascended Palatine?

Lynata said:

It all depends on the level disparity between the two combatants. Ascended characters are likely to have multiple dodges and/or multiple parries if they're combat oriented. This will be better in many cases than a starting Marine. You've got to think like a munchkin if you're going to fight with one. Inferno pistols do 2d10+4 pen 12 out of the core book. If you do two shots you have a good chance of dealing some damage (15 per shot average, -8 from UT is 7 from each hit or 14 total wounds). Or you combine it with dual shot where armor counts as normal (which doesn't matter due to pen 12) and you get two shots, add the damage together, and subtract toughness once. So average 30 damage - 8ish, 22 wounds (with a 34% RF chance).

The core of the argument is, again, Ascended PCs aren't helpless against the mighty Astartes. Disadvantaged, potentially, but definitely not helpless. It's just like building enemies that on paper may be disadvantaged, you have to look at all the options and play like a PC.

Regardless of all the 'my gun is shootier', I would expect most people to defer to military folks with 'sir' or the like, but that's half the fun of PCs with backgrounds of their own. If played right, perhaps this 'scum' will learn to like/trust Astartes, and perhaps this Astartes will learn that regardless of his deeds and effort defending humanity the reputation, methods, and actions of them may not always be appreciated.

Charmander said:

Ah, I didn't realize Seraphim Inferno Pistols do less damage and have a lower penetration.

Charmander said:

Just saying that a freshly Ascended Battle Sister Palatine has a whopping 1 Dodge and 0 Parry - so it still depends heavily on the class. If BoM was an indicator for future supplements we might see the same tradeoff between early access to powerful equipment but less talents/skills later on for other careers.

But you are still somewhat right, I think. I just noticed that there seems to be a strong disparity between what the individual careers can do, largely due to career-specific equipment or awesome Psyker powers. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing - differences in efficiency can enrich a game, if everyone still has a chance to feel useful. And the differences don't feel like "worlds apart". At the same time I wouldn't like to be shoehorned into one specific loadout (-> dual Infernos) just because all other ranged weapons in my armoury suck. But no matter, this is not what this thread is about, so ... sorry for going OT there.

Charmander said:

Definitively. Small gestures can go a long way to make a character's culture stand apart. Like that one Guard Regiment from "Daemonblood" where everyone traditionally saluted with a single finger to the hat.

Lynata said:

To continue the OT branch (I have GOT to get back to work), with FFG going the 'one path' method in it's stuff, I wouldn't be surprised to see the theory suggested on the DH forums about a re-work of all classes was slowly rolling in. Super excited to see Only War

Charmander said:

Super excited to see Only War

Likewise ... they're really taking more and more of my monies. **** them.

Charmander said:

nope in this case it ended in total bloodbath. After some fake proof that Sons of Apocalypse (mentioned marine chapter) were heretics and could have deals with Theli Ravagers (Renegade Marine, space pirates), some misguided targeting data for IG and obvious SM retaliation in force in witch by accident died governor cousin, not to mention that certain xeno artifact were stolen from AdMech and all leads pointed mentioned chapter, and after many of such strange accidents 3rd Company of Sons of Apocalypse were declared "heretics" by inquisition and purged by rest of chapter and Holy forces of the Inquisition. Beautiful revenge, also never piss Inquisition even as mighty marine. (ofc whole intrigue have taken around 10 DH sessions, heare is short version and sad result) Story a bit similar to fate of Celestial Lions, they pissed inquisitor too with bad results.

So some piece of scum in service of the Inquisition mis-used that authority to destroy a ten-thousandth of Mankind's most stalwart and valued defenders in an ongoing war for survival, because of his own desire for revenge?

Impressive, but ultimately completely selfish and evil. Still, a good idea for a Black Crusade character...

Siranui said:

still off topic

marine hater on one side complete devout to emperor and inquisition, extremely efficient in everything he was doing to protect humanity. Lesser Evil kind of guy. Great as adversary to Black Crusade group.

boruta666 said:

The Lesser Evil is lying to get a whole chapter killed (and all of the other Emperor fearing folk that died fighting them) because one of their cousins wronged your people? Yeah, right

Fanatic dont understand his hatred.

He doesn't, but we can -from an external viewpoint- see that what he calls the 'lesser evil' is really the greater one, and one that costs the Imperium severely, put against the loss of a single, essentially unimportant, human life. Hence why it's a great starting background for a Black Crusade character, and certainly an act worthy of a slew of Corruption points.

i dont mix Our Real World Morality with RPG WH40k Moral point of view. And MY view as both GM and person who RP NPC inquisitor was more in Grim Dark theme of WH40k universe. "Life is emperors currency, spend it well" those few hundreds guardsmen, company of marines and few hundred thousands other people who died were coin well spend. (Besides Marines arent shining knights of WH40k, more like overrated product of alchemical and genetical tech wizardry, with affinity for going heretic)

And since this situation happen maybe 2 or more years ago, i barely remember it but probably i punished player with around 5CP and gifted with great number of xp for great ideas and great RP.

The Astartes are the giants and heroes who built the Imperium, and represent the finest achievements of the Emperor’s vision.

It is the pygmies and cowards skulking on Terra, and those polluting the Imperium with faith, who are the heretics.

boruta666 said:

A Space Marine hater who was devoted to the emperor? Sorry that doesn't make sense. (I'm not sure if that's what you mean) Any imperial citizen mocking a space marine, a chosen champion of Man and descendent of the God Emperor Himself is committing heresy by doing so; he is making small of and taking the piss out of the Emperor's pride and joy. Any (generic) inquisitor would cheerfully burn him at the stake for that kind of heretical thinking.

He doesn't have to spread the news he hates Marines. He would better not, in fact.

And he could think -though that's idiotic, but we're talking about beliefs, faith and the likes, so anything is possible- that the imperial mottos are wrong, that all the fuss about the Marines was not what the God-Emperor intended it to be, etc, etc...

That's not my point of view, and I would say that the Inquisition would be much more careful about "proofs" that a Chapter is heretic, but, hey, Role Playing is about roles and playing, so if the group and the GM have fun, that story sounds reasonable and defendable to me

Stormast said:

Heresy. His thinking is wrong. This isn't a democracy here.