avec said:
Yeah, statistics aren't meaningless. They're just hard to interpret. Powerful investigators tend to be correlated with tough AOs, like Tibs said.
What I really meant was this.
Another topic on spells
Ugh... For the record, I still hate Patrice.
Selection bias is important, but it's unlikely that players who want to submit games are too much different from those who do not. It's still a fair statement to say that Yog-Sothoth is harder than Shub-Niggurath. That's the idea of the stats, really. To glimpse which AO is the worst.
Is it possible to break out an investigator's record over AOs from different expansions? For example, Mandy's win percentage is X% in games with base set AOs, but Y% in games with Kingsport AOs. That would help us more directly compare Mandy, Daisy, and Patrice's performance. In other words, Daisy might not have a high win percentage when compared to Mandy. However, when you compare Daisy's win percentage against Kingsport AOs with Mandy's win percentage against Kingsport AOs, then Daisy might fare better.
Unfortunately, Excel can't do that. I actually have to jump through hoops just to determine the win/loss ratio for the investigators and the amount the Dunwich herald boosts the Horror's chances of awakening.
A better statistics program or knowledge of excel pivot tables might be able to do that easily, but I don't have much time to learn all that.
My two cents on this issue. Statistics are important, they give us the chance to monitor how the community interpret the game. And they give a very accurate view on which AO / Herald / Whatelse is harder to beat, and why. Plus, all the minutiae (Sheldon gang membership, and so on) are great. We can have a quick insight on how the game works. But some results are... yeah, not so meaningful. I mean, some points reflect the way people play, and not the way the game is.
Heralds issue: Father Dagon is the most difficult. I do not agree strongly on this point (probably the Black Goat is tougher), but this is just a sensation I have. The main point is that the combo Dagon + Hydra is not as deadly as Dagon alone. Which is a non-sense, since adding a Herald is not like adding a Guardian. Probably we have less data about Dagon + Hydra, or - more probably - players who are not experienced enough to beat Dagon alone tend not to play with Dagon + Hydra. Thus the games recorded for the D+H combo have been entered from more experienced players.
The chance of winning / losing the game reflects not the general dfficulty of the game, but the way people play it. We heard from many people here on this forum that it's difficult to cohordinate many people playing, and even in my personal experience I noticed that the more we are around the table, the more likely is losing the game.
Investigators: some investigators are very difficult to play with, and this can reflect on their position between the most effective. Hank is considered to be a low level character, and so is Roland. Roland is an impressive character to play with. Buy him research materials and he can enter a gate with just one clue and his PS passed (which is a goal not that difficult to achieve) and you'll have a seal. Daisy is a magnificent character, and even Norman and Akachi. Akachi is one of the strongest character in the game, since all her abilities focus on gates (and after all the game is about gates). But they are difficult to play with, and so probably the stats are influenced by this.
Last note about the Fist of Yog-Sothoth: it could be crappy, but it could also be great if you are blessed.
Imho, Carolyn Fern is a great spell fighter. Her high Lore combined with her sanity regeneration make spellcasting so easy and cheap. Thanks to her decent Will, she can pass the easiest horror checks or simply endure the sanity punishment of the rest. If she gets a good Skill (fight, will, occultist, bravery) and some nice items at startup she can be quite an effective spell fighter, laying monsters to waste.
Julia said:
Investigators: some investigators are very difficult to play with, and this can reflect on their position between the most effective. Hank is considered to be a low level character, and so is Roland. Roland is an impressive character to play with. Buy him research materials and he can enter a gate with just one clue and his PS passed (which is a goal not that difficult to achieve) and you'll have a seal. Daisy is a magnificent character, and even Norman and Akachi. Akachi is one of the strongest character in the game, since all her abilities focus on gates (and after all the game is about gates). But they are difficult to play with, and so probably the stats are influenced by this.
I think you'd actually need to send him to other worlds with 2 clues (or else he'll not have enough coming out). Interesting thought... Stockpiling research materials with another investigator (from the Innsmouth location) and bringing them over to Roland. The question is, is the $5 needed to get them worth the time and money spent getting them?
Oh btw, thanks for clarifying the issue regarding the statistics. I don't actually think they are totally meaningless, just somewhat meaningless (and you're doing a much better job than I am explaining why).
Avi_dreader said:
I think you'd actually need to send him to other worlds with 2 clues (or else he'll not have enough coming out)
Yeah, I meant you have to spend only one round collecting clues. You gather the clue on turn 1. You move to the location with the gate on round 2 (2nd clue) and go through the gate. You move to the OW 2nd area - turn 3, third clue. You return to Arkham - turn 4, 4th clue. Seal with Research materials. Then do it again. While you're out in the OW, another investigator goes shopping for research materials. Played this way, he's impressive.