I've always thought of the +10 strength that you get from Frenzy being added on afterwards (same as power armour) but someone else said it should be added before the unnatural x2 is factored in (as the Frenzy is a physical state) i.e. Marine with 42 strength Frenzies (becoming 52 str) then Unnatural Strength x2 (5 x 2 = 10 or 52 x2 = 104 depending on the way you think) then +20 armour for 124 strength (bonus 12) - this can't be right, surely?

I have interpreted it as before the unnatural strength, as the other way doesnt seem really worth it.

I dont really like frenzy much anyway for an assault guy. It seems like it's a waste of time since you need to get to the enemy quickly.

My blood angels apothecary gets "a little carried away" when engaging the enemy and i use a self-imposed rule whereby if something notably bad/weird happens to him then i roll a willpower test (with varying modifiers - situation dependant) to see if he automatically flips out (part of playing out the red thirst/black rage).

So basically i was trying to see if i was doing myself out a some potential extra damage to xenos-ness by calculating it wrong.

sgtgrarm said:

My gut says that it happens just like power armor, and the +10 would be applied after. The bonus is theoretically based on being frothed into a, well, frenzy, right, and that would seem to me at first blush to be a mechanical addition, much like power armor is, to the character's base super muscles.

However, without looking if it can stack with other powers and get out of control, I don't see anything all that game changing/breaking between giving the Marine a +2 versus a +1 to damage.

Just remember when you're doubling the strength bonus, it's only the bonus like you have in your first example. I only say this because I've seen people use the other way as well and then end up miscalculating when you have a score of say 56.