Are the combat rules set up for minis and a grid? That is my perfered way of playing RPGs. I picked up the 3rd edtion of WFRPG and was disapointed it was so abstract and did not have grid based mini combat.

Call me old school I guess.

It's simple enough to do 40k rpgs on a grid. Just have each space represent a meter and you're golden.

You could do it on a grid if you wanted. However, since ranges refer to the exact distance, distances across the diagonal will be an issue. After all, if you have squares with a side length of x, the distance between the center of two squares with corners touching is x * the square root of 2. Sooner or later you will have to bust out a ruler.

Hex grids will lessen that problem, if you decide what scale you want to make the grid at. Make the scale too small and you are going to need a huge surface*, to large and you lose needed precision**

*Most battles take place within about 30 meters. But a weapons maximum range is 4 times the listed range, meaning there are weapons that can hit from 800m away.

**Needing precision down to the meter is common. Then there are situations where half-meter precision is needed. For example, facing someone with a whip (3m range melee weapon) and multiple attacks. If you move out of melee with him and move less than 3m, you are still in range for his full selection of attacks. Move more than 4m and he can charge at you, giving him a bonus to his attack. So moving to 3.5 meters is a very good idea.

I suggest you use models and a ruler.

You'll also need to figure out how you want to represent hordes in Deathwatch. Ultimatley just make sure you're communicating clearly to your players what each mini represents though and you shouldn't have too much trouble.

Quite a lot of it is abstract, especially in Deathwatch, so I'd say it's better played without models and a grid, though you can bodge it in just about, but it's not a particularly good fit.

My groups use various Square and Hex grids (depending on who's house we play at and who is running) and abstract/verbal. We also will adjust the grid scale to fit what we need at the time, even adjusting it on the fly during a fight as things close in.

Ken on Cape said:

Could just use the 40k TT rules for combat, and the RPG for story and fluff. That would probably be the best way to handle that.

Ken on Cape said:

Ah; a man who is used to those grid-bound classics like T&T, Traveller, Pendragon, CoC et al...

No; It's not expressly set up to use any form of grid, as the game is taking a step away from it's skirmish wargame roots, towards being a roleplaying game. I guess that you could, if you weren't happy with the really quick-playing and massively abstracted-for-speed horde rules, and wanted to slow down the game a bit...

I would actually disagree with those saying it was not designed with a grid in mind. Dark Heresy explicitly states it was (while saying it is not obligitary). This is not surprising, as GW is a miniatures company and wanted people to play with miniatures (and many players, myself included, would want to as well). Some of the mechanics make less sense, or are less useful, if using a more narrative approach.

The Dark Heresy combat system was designed with a square grid and full metre moves in mind (ie, moving to 3.5 metres from your target to game the whip was not intended). It ignored the issues of diagonals (ie they just counted as 1 move, even if that means you move faster on the diagonals). However, it can be played on hexes with no alteration (and it may be better that way, considering the previous issue), and they suggest that you can play it with figures and no grid by making 1 inch represent 1 metre. One bizarre thing is that the figures are actually too small at this scale (they should be slightly under twice their height... or larger, seeing the usual approach in miniatures is to have figures that are too large for their scale).

However, since Fantasy Flight took over producing the game there has been a move away from miniatures. Rogue Trader changed the emphasis saying the game COULD be played with miniatures, but that it was not designed that way (all the while not changing the core combat mechanics in many ways). There were certain things introduced which did not fit so well into playing with miniatures and boards, but they were not central. With Deathwatch there was a further move away from miniatures. There has been no change in the core rules, but they have created extra features which complicate matters while providing no guidance on how to do them on combat maps. The big one is hordes, as they represent many people but are treated as one entity, and no guidance is given on representing them on a combat board. In fact they don't make much sense on a combat board. However, the core mechanics of one on one combat (which is limited to more powerful enemies, as only they have the ability to harm Space Marines individually) is pretty much identical to the original Dark Heresy, which means it works fine on a combat mat.

I would leave longer range fights (which are more common in Deathwatch, which features more pitched battles, unlike the usually close range skirmishes of the other systems) narratively. You would simply require too much space on the board, and most of the mechanics become increasingly irrelevant at long distances (or the need to need mapped out detail is reduced). However, I would probably try to map out a fight with individuals (rather than hordes) when it got to about 20-50 metres range. at this point it becomes more important to keep track of where things are more specifically.

Works fine on grids/maps.

My group routinely runs on top of:

A.) Space Hulk tiles

B.) Map boards from the Star wars mini and D&D games

C.) Large dry-erase marker boards

We use tape measures for distances and plenty of terrain and minis.

If you're familiar with the unit movement trays from fantasy, that's how we denote hordes. Minis on the tray are the tens digit for magnitude and we place a d10 on there to show the ones digit. Single enemy models off of trays represent either a co-located leader with a horde, or a lieutenant or boss type enemy.

All we really have to ask the GM is what scale each map is.

For the larger encounters and exploring, we usually scale it 1 inch = 5 meters.

For Space Hulk missions, we're on a 1"=2m scale usually and sometimes 1" = 3m.

As long as you know what the scale is, everything being visually represented on the table speeds combat up a bit. And it helps when you're a group of TableTop gamers that have tons of minis and have played for years.

Ken on Cape said:

Old School? That's funny. While 'Chainmail' was a mini's system and there were measurements in 1st Ed. AD&D for inches I don't recall seeing a mini for RPG play until the '90s. It really came on with AD&D 3rd Edition and I don't think you can even play AD&D 4th Edition without minis!

I happen to like using grids for combat (bought a Chessex Mondomat years ago) as they made combats a bit easier to run. I'm sort of torn these days because the literal graphic representation takes the 'stretchy' abstraction of narrative play away.

Works fine, we use a wet erase mat and minis for almost all battles.

If the scale bugs you then make each square/hex 2 meters, that's about right for the scale of the minitures.

I don't mind the use of minis and maps.

Though I tend to use them only to give a general idea, without bringing exact distances in to the equation.

For example, if you have Space Hulk, the corridor and room tiles would be absolutely perfect tools for mapping out the corridors of some complex/ship/whatever that the party is skulking through, with models laid out simply to illustrate where everyone's character is relative to the things attacking them. But wouldn't go in to the exacting detail of having the model for Character X a specific distance away from Antagonist Y, dependent on how far away they are from each other in game.

We use a grid map and count 1" = 2 meters, although I guess 1m per square is probably easier. For hordes we usually use Huge-sized minis to represent the hordes.

For adjusting the diagonal, could do what D&D did. First diagonal counts as one square and every even number diagonal counts as two squares.