I just noticed that the M44 T-34 miniatures match up fairly well with the ToI armor size wise, and the Russian T-34s from M44 make a fairly decent proxy for a T-34/85.

What kind of stats do you think a T-34/85 ought to have in ToI? I sure would appreciate your opinions on this, I'm definately no armor expert!

Thanks in advance to anyone who may have an opinion!

i believe i stated them on an op card in Fury of the Bear

BJaffe01

would it be similar to the barrel modifications card that came with DotF +2 FP +1 range

BJaffe01 said:

Yes, that would be fantastic!

Aussie_Digger said:

It is a very long barrel, I would go with Range 8, FP 10.

BJaffe01 said:

Great! (But isn't it still a not more appealing to have separate miniatures. I always dislike having unit A and pretending it's unit B; I mean I wouldn't really have a problem pretending that a panzer IV G is a panzer IV H or vice versa, because they actually looked incredibly similar, but e.g. a Sherman firefly is really completely distinct from a regular one (that is, you can spot the difference a mile off, since the barrel is like 4 times longer and thicker or so...). The same goes for the panzer IV e from the operations card in DoTF which is supposed to be represented by the panzer IV G/H from the base set).

I don't have these proxy problems because I use larger hexes (10cm) and Flames of War vehicles.

But if I weren't, I sure would like to have variant miniatures.

KlausFritsch said:

Well, I have lots and lots of AAM miniatures, so I'll use the V1 Sherman firefly, but e.g. the panzer IV E is only available in the larger scaled V2 and looks a bit out of whack because of that.

Anyway, I'd still like TOI to produce and release vehicles of their own...

BJaffe01 said:

Runs to go get the FotB cards...

You mean the "T-34 Increased Firepower" card?

Oh yeah, I see it now in the text. Was that the only difference in the T-34/85? Just the gun and nothing else?

So the "KV-1 Increased Firepower" card is supposed to be the KV-2?

Wow, it looks like the M44 Panzer IV will do for a proxy for the Panzer IV Ausf. E too! Nice.

Ah, I hate to say this, but now that I look at the M44 Tiger, I like it better than the ToI Tiger...

kaufschtick said:

Could also be the KV 85. The T34/85 also had improved armor. Well, as far as that's concerned we all know that TOI abstracts a lot of things...

I've just heard that I'll have to wait for 1 1/2 more weeks for my FLAGS to receive FoTB. Any chance you could give some more information on the scenarios and cards pretty please???

I'm also waiting for the game. But untill then, here is a picture at boardgamegeek.com

http://boardgamegeek.com/image/932388/tide-of-iron-fury-of-the-bear?size=large

It's for the upgunned KV-85. the early T34-85's actually don't have all the improvements that the one's reaching the battlefield in the Summer of 44 did.

the KV-2 is a monster but so slow. it might rate a 3 movement

BJaffe01

BJaffe01 said:

Great, now I have to get and paint four KV-85s...

KlausFritsch said:

That's exactly my point. That shouldn't be necessary or at the very least it should be a temporary, makeshift necessity. TOI should release vehicles that are mentioned on op-cards as actual vehicles. "Look, this is X, but pretend it's Y", just doesn't work for me; or it annoys me at the very least. I also have some other options, but what I really want is officla TOI alternatives. Don't worry, I'm quite willing to pay for them and I'd probably buy multiple copies to be able to have BIG battles, if only in theory, because usually we don't even manage to finish the smaller ones...

Kingtiger said:

While it is great to get all the plastic vehicles that are represented in FotB, we did get a great assortment of vehicles in this expansion. 3 different AFVs, and a whopping 14 T-34/76s! That ain't too shabby!

But a none WWII fanatic like me may have problems seeing the difference? heck, sometimes I mix the tiger and the panther...

I think they did a pretty good job with FotB, as far as the plastic goes. What did the Yanks get in the base game as far as AFV plastic? I think it was 12 Shermans? The Yanks got another 4 M-10s in the Normandy expansion. Here we have the Russsian getting 14 T-34s, 4 KV-1s, and 4 SU-122s in FotB.

Not too shabby, I'd say.

It kinda brings up another funny thing about the "unit counts" in ToI. I think the British have the most numerous infantry pieces in the game overall, due to getting pieces in both DotF and Normandy. They have the most bases, and figures, as far as infantry goes.

It's also kinda funny, but the T-34 tank figures in M44 wind up making a pretty decent "proxy" for the up gunned T-34s in the card we have. Pop the turret of of one of the M44 T-34s, and glue it on one of the FotB KV-1s, and you might even have a decent "proxy" for a KV-85!

Just came across this at the Kampfgruppe 144 Forum site:

It is a Battle Tank Collection of 144 scale tanks that looks like it might be promising as a potential army pack that FFG could offer that would wind up in my game store where I could buy it rather than risk lost merchandise in the mail. Much easier to just stop by the game store and buy just the same as I bought my first TOI base game and Expansions.

VanCamper said:

Sweet! Those look promising!