i think a good protrayal of a chaos marine would be Gary olmans dracula, A knight who feels betrayed by his god therfore turning to the gods enemies

Dulahan said:

Going along with this, the Imperium's goal is to wipe out all other races and one day rule all they can see (well, get to) under an iron fist. I think it's just as corrupting and terrible as the "our greatest plan is to dissolve the entirety of the universe" plan. I think that Chaos is more about principle and ideals than the Imperium if Chaos infiltrated the other races (i've been told that some Orcs have gone to the Chaos side but it's debatable) that they would welcome the followers and let them fight alongside them in combat. While the Imperium wants only humans all the time. Yes, their are sanctioned Xenos but this is only on a one being at a time schedule. If a large enough chunk of the Tau, or whoever, started to praise Tzeentch and became Chaos infused Tau than I doubt that the Chaos legions would care. They might be only on the front lines fighting as canon fodder but they would still be used and may one day have a seat at Abaddon's table.

Thoughts?

Hmm… good examples of well “good” bad guys. I find one of the easiest things to just flip the viewpoints of characters and already you get some fun examples of “good” guys that are bad guys. So let’s see, you have a totalitarian regime that uses fear as a weapon to pacify its population; they have weapons capable of leveling entire planets and are ruled by an incredibly powerful psychic power wielding Emperor. Fighting against them is a rag tag group of outcasts and misfits…a precious few (although later there will be more) of which armed with similar psychic powers. But they use their powers for “freedom” and “peace” as they see it. I dare say the Rebel Alliance is a pretty good example of a good bad guy. (That and well Vader sort of looks like he has a marine helmet…kinda)

Of course another idea is just to simply remove yourself from a human’s moral mindset. Take for example the aliens in well “Alien.” They were merely creatures looking for food/to set up a nest. I don’t know if you RP the mind set of a demon or an alien race but that might not be a bad direction to go either just remove the humanity part from it and you’re not evil, you’re just doing your thing to survive.

Of course…you could just run a nihilist mindset as well. The galaxy, or at least humanity is a cancer that must be purged. The death and suffering they’ve caused through their history, the number of races exterminated…this just should not be allowed to be. Think of any character from something who was part of the system then fights against it…that makes a good “bad” guy. The one who’s seen how messed up it is, and just wants to tear it all down. If you can keep from getting too morose with it, it can be a blast.

As an aside…one of the things I really love about RPGs is playing, or trying to play as best I can, someone or something that is incredibly far removed from who I am as a person. I get to be me all the time…for fun I like thinking like someone who’s distinctly NOT me. I like acting, so that might be part of it, I like trying to figure out the head of the other, understanding it and copying it well enough to pass as that thing believably. I figure the more I know about what I’m not the more I’ll know about what I am…even in a game.

Tl,dr: The best way to play a bad guy: don’t play a bad guy, just play a guy.

Spiritseer said:

Heh, made me remember this picture ...

Spiritseer said:

Hmm, idk - I think one of the most interesting things is that there likely is no wrong way to portray a servant of Chaos, as its followers cover the entire range from misguided visionaries to antisocial maniacs. I would advise against making characters look "too good", though, as in the end Chaos is utterly corrupting and everything comes with a price. Even a charismatic anti-hero should have a dark and tainted side which he only exerts when he thinks he can afford it. In the end, I think all that matters is motivation. Let your characters have a reason for what they do ... even if it's just the enjoyment of the suffering of others.

Magneto would also be a good example of a "good" badguy...

For me, the Orks are more "Chaotic" than any disciple of the Dark Four. No agenda, no goal except berserk violence and carnage...

We are basing our thoughts on this game around the central premise that we will be playing 'the bad guys'. I would put forward the suggestion that we could instead be liberators of humanity, showing others the way to personal power and happiness through true gods, and the Primordial Creator.

When so many suffer lives of drudgery, and are meaningless and grimy gears in the industry or wars of the Imperium, one could argue that freeing them from that darkness and casting off the shackles of a dying administration trying to grasp the last of its power would be a positive action for mankind.

Contrast the harsh and unforgiving teachings of the Ecclesiarchy, which outright condemn many strata of society (such as mutants and witches, who are often born such through no fault of their own) and grind down the rest of humanity, with a verse from the Satin Throne: 'Set aside your anger and despair, and forget the empty promises of change, for I am the joy of the now, and the vindication of life.' Those words could be a beautiful revelation for the downtrodden. They may even dare to hope for better, more meaningful existences.

Evil is a point of view!

Dr Von Doom as a good bad guy.

According to one of the book first heretic The Emperor made a deal with the 4 gods of chaos and then turned down his part of the bargin. Logars boys found out and attempted to spred the word with Horus listning to him first.

So in my book the Emperor is the big bad guy.

Dulahan said:

What bull! Those are not people. Those are psykers, the worst kind of mutant.

and the imperium is so hypocritical that they can't operate with out them navigators the astronomical choir the emporer thats the beauty of it all

well...........Im stumped on this one

Would Elizibeth Bathory be Khorne or Slaneesh?

The deal with Chaos is that they don't see themselves as evil. sure, they do terrible things and commit unspeakable atrocities, but so does the Imperium, in their minds. They Are the good guy in Black Crusade, not a character version of the Bad Guy. The father who loses everything to the imperium and turns to Chaos in a quest for vengeance isn't necassarily a bad guy. The Soldier who loses faith in commanders who send troops to what they know to be certain death and strikes against them with some daemonic help isnt necassarilly evil. The Bishop who stops giving blessings in the name of an unanswering, uncaring god, but in the name of Nurgle, who makes the Bishop's flock stronger because of the disease inside of them isn't necassarily evil. They aren't bad, theyre misunderstood, or so the mantra goes.

I am a little surprised no one has brought up Firefly or Serenity .

The crew of the Serenity is evil from the governments perspective, especially in the movie. Recidivist criminals who are hiding a rogue psyker, while acting against proper rule. You even have all the chaos gods represented by the crew.

The Operative in Serenity is a character that can be looked upon as switching sides from Imperial to Chaos.

Tunnelhckrat said:

Gillam Harrow said:

Naturally, the Imperium itself is far from being a "gentle" regime and as such is likely often responsible for providing the basis of amorality which later leads traitors to commit terrible atrocities themselves - yet the Imperium has laws preventing the greatest of abuse, laws that would be utterly absent for those Champions of Chaos who could simply follow every darkest angle of desire.

In any case, I would advise against portraying servants of Chaos as simply misguided or even protagonists and heroes who are simply fighting against an oppressive regime. This is not what Chaos is about. Misguidance and idealism can be ways to lead towards Chaos, but in the end there is only corruption and evil in its most rawest form (at least based on our own modern world morale compass).

Ah, the old "Mice see cats as Evil, Cats see themselves as Good" argument. There is some truth to it, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that Chaos sees itsself as "Good"- more like "In the Right". While it's true that many serial killers try to convince themselves that they are Good Guys punishing bad people who deserve to die, I don't think too many followers of Chaos hide behind that kind of self-delusion- I think their rationale is more "Survival of the Fittest" and "Might Makes Right", rather than "I'm a Misunderstood Good Guy (who practices human sacrifice)".

Someone mentioned Nemesis the Warlock as a great bad character. If anyone's unaware, Nemesis was a 80s and 90s comic strip from the long running 2000 AD and the titular was a servant of Khaos (with a K) who fought against the minions of the Terran Empire; basically humanity in the far future; a bunch of religious zealots with a homicidal hatred of all aliens. He was a great character, but the way the comic was written (by the quite anti authoritarian Pat Mills) Nemesis was always portrayed as being very much the good guy (though by guy I am talking about pointy headed, cloven hooved firey acid spitting alien creature with diabolic powers). I always got the sense that some of what became 40k lore was "borrowed" from these stories. For example; the elite human alien killers in the comic were called terminators and wore armour that was often decorated with religious iconography. The real bad guy torquemada once sported a chainsword...

It's amusing to me that in the game Deathwatch, players are basically playing the bad guys from Nemesis the Warlock... though they are a lot better at it (Nemesis used to carve his way through dozens of terminators). A bit off the point but there you go.

when asked if he preferred to play "good guys" or "bad guys", Willem Dafoe replied, "ain't no difference. everybody thinks they're righteous"

rayze said:

Very true. Even Hitler thought he was doing a good thing for his world.

But back to the topic.

Jason, Freddy, Michael Meyers (any slasher movie villain) could all be followers of Khorne.

I would put Hannibal Lecter in with Slannesh.

Vader and The Emperor would fall into the Tzeench catagory for all the sorcery.

The Crypt Keeper could be a follower of Nurgle and all Zombie movie villains.

Something from the Dark Imperium anthology - perhaps interesting in terms of character motivations:

"The girl I can understand. Her mind is most infertile. What has she ever questioned? They teach her and she believes." The corners of the chasm turned upwards. The thing was smiling. "But you, my man. You are different, are you not? You can travel across the stars - but you do not know what lies between them. I could show you, my boy. I could show you why your omnipotent Emperor chooses to let his Imperium of toy soldiers be eroded by Chaos."

Parmenides's immense face rose up in a vast static tidal wave that surrounded them like an amphitheatre of flesh. He gazed down on them from above, drowning them in his blank gaze. Sister Aescarion took an involuntary step back, then held firm. Sergeant Castus continued merely to gaze upon the corrupt being, his eyes steely, jaw set in righteous defiance.

"Now ask yourself, who is in the ascendancy? Every year more and more worlds are lost to you. No matter how you lie to yourself that the warp is held at bay, you know deep in that untaught part of yourself that humanity will fall. The girl cannot see the inevitable. But you can. And do you really want to be dragged down by the Imperium as it sinks? You will die knowing your efforts were futile. You will die knowing that you know nothing!

I can give you flesh that will not wither, only change and become home to a civilisation of pestilence. Do not follow the Imperium when it falls. With my help you can crash it beneath your heel, and become an Imperium yourself, my boy! I can show you what secrets this dark little universe contains. I can show you what it really means to exist in a world your Imperium is blind to."

- Parmenides, Chosen Prince of Nurgle, and Sergeant Castus of the Ultramarines' 2nd Company, shortly before turning to Chaos

Can't remember the character(s) names, but the two main protagonists of Death Note: an idealist young man who believes in justice and proceeds to engage in what can only be called a calulated campaign of murder, and his opponent, the genius investigator who will do anything, up to and including murder and torture to discover his prey's identity.

Oh yeah. Perfect example for the lure of Tzeentch!

And the birth of a meme.

riddick as an intelligent khornate?

Lorcus said:

You're looking for:

Light and L

and now I'm blanking on who I was going to add.

CaptainSabutai said:

The killer from the Saw movies, did what he did because he was dying of cancer.

One of the players in my group is always saying he wants to run a chaos campaign for WFRP (2nd edition using the rules in Tome of Corruption). I don't know if he's seen this yet or not, I think I'm going to have to mention it...

Never mind, move along