There's been something bugging me for a while.

Is there an in universe justification for why the Backpack Ammo/Power Supply weighs quite so much? Other than it being an inherent balancing factor to the fact that it gives a character such a larger ammo capacity to work with.

Ammo weighs a lot and they are big and bulky.

You could consider that they are so heavy do to extra armor that would help protect the sometimes volatile ammo from enemy fire.

Ah, yes, I forgot how volatile some of those munitions can be. And the Imperium doesn't typically do things small, do they?

Thanks for reminding me of that that.

And lets not forget, 40k runs off World War 2 film physics/chic. Why are long-range voxs huge backpacks in the 41st century? Well, they look awfully like those films with lots of skirmishes, heroes, heavy backpacks and bulky tech...

Are voxs that big? I mean considering the microbead..

I know there is a backpack version of the auspex though.

I know theres smaller ones, but the longer range ones I've seen in the wargame in passing as usually the World War 2 style backpacks. Unfortunately for the Guard... =P

Even with those reasons the weight seems pretty heavy. 30 autogun rounds weigh .35 Kg. Carrying 300 rounds would only weigh 3.5 kg, and that would include carrying the actual magazines so the 200 that the backpack actually carries is only 2.33kg. Granted some of that weight would be the back pack, and feed system, but for stub weapons at least 25kg is way too heavy.

Actually a cursory glance at the weapons seems to suggest that at its weight the backpack is a poor choice for every weapon except maybe flamers.

The backpacks weight and ammo capacity was obviously chosen for game balance purposes.

llsoth said:

Yeah, I get that part. But 25 kg does seem a tad excessive, wouldn't you say? I was just hoping that there might be a reason other than ultimately arbitrary attempts by the developers to balance the item's admittedly great usefulness with a very inconvenient downside. I'd like to think there are better ways to accomplish that than hitting the players with an encumbrance penalty.

I understand that it needs to be some downside to using the backpack, but they went too far in the other direction. If its weight was 5-10kg lower it would be a worth trade off. As is its better to be covered in regular mags and just take cover or have a fellow pc suppress the enemy while you reload.

On an unrelated note does 2F seem a little long to reload an autogun?

Ammo backpack is better if your GM enforces the Rule of Three (Three reloads, three grenades, etc.) on your encumbrance, or you've taken advantage of one of the stupidly easy ways to get Unnatural Strength.

I'd say it's that heavy because of the addition of a motor (in the case of solid ammo) that feeds the ammo out of the backpack and into the gun.

@Vandroiy

On an unrelated note does 2F seem a little long to reload an autogun?

That would be 10 seconds including the retrieval of the second magazine, which can easily be cut in half with Rapid Reload. Sounds fine to me.

@Errant

Ammo backpack is better if your GM enforces the Rule of Three (Three reloads, three grenades, etc.) on your encumbrance, or you've taken advantage of one of the stupidly easy ways to get Unnatural Strength.

What would those "stupidly easy ways" be and how many of them don't leave you a pariah in imperial society?

@Topic

I'd assume the backpack suffers from having only one weight given. I haven't got the stats in front of me, but didn't it contain the same number of bolts and SP ammo?

It wouldn't be odd if the lasgun, and bolter were both 2F but they're 1F and the reloading mechanism on them is basically the same as an autogun.

Reload times are messed up, for instance did you notice the 2full for the 8 shot pump shotgun?

So 10 seconds.. that is really.. really good.

With rapid reload or customized it is 5 seconds.. that is freakishly good.

With customized and rapid reload it is 2.5 seconds, or a half action. that is inhuman and doing it would likely get you shot by the inquisition on suspicion of using warp powers.

So reloading 8 shells in a pump shotgun takes as long as reloading a single clip... supposedly.

llsoth said:

Revolver clip for the shells.

You're right most of the reload times are wonky. I do have to challenge the idea that it takes 10 seconds to change a magazine, when I shoot it usually only takes about 5-7 seconds or so to pull a mag from my vest, and swap out mags. Admittedly I've never done it while being shot at, although I doubt anyone is being to careful with the empty mag. Maybe a new reload time for Las/Bolt/SP weapons of 1F for pistols, 2F for Basic, and 3F for Heavy.

Errant said:

Not sure what you mean. Is there a speed reloader for pump shotguns? If there is point me in the right direction I might want one.

Or are you saying that a pump shotgun has a revolver magazine? Not sure about that one as the weapon specifies a pump-action.

Vandroiy said:

I would go with 1F for clip based weapons. Generally someone with a lot of practice (rapid reload equive I guess) can do it in 2-3 seconds. Of course if we are going for real life rapid reload would be gun model specific, it is for me anyway.

llsoth said:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/32390276/Shotgun-Speed-Loader-Patent-4509284

My opinion of shotgun reloading is somewhat tainted by Borderlands , in which basically every shotgun, including pumps, has a revolver-styled magazine for the shells. Short leap of the imagination later, customisation/rapid reload of the shotgun is achieved by changing the gun so the ammunition can all be loaded at once instead of by hand.

Their are a fairly large number of shotguns with detachable magazines, although I have no doubt that in the imperium someone has made a revolver shotgun.

I was also leaning towards 1F for weapons with box magazines, but you seemed adamant about 2F being reasonable earlier on.

Daisuke said:

Heavy Stubber: Ammo + backpack + metal ribbing to hold backpacks shape + ammo links + ammo feed chute = much more weight than the ammo alone.

I have one question about this, how much does an ammo or a clip weight in RT?

because I didnt fint it anywhere, so my players dont know how much they can carry, or is the clip counted in the weapons weight? and if so, how much does an additional clip weight? or are the +2 clips in the weapons weight too?

(sorry for bad english)

Ammo weight is not listed; however, should it be important to know how much ammunition weighs, consider a weapon’s full clip to weigh 10% of the weight of the weapon itself.

well, I'm asking about ammo, because I looked at the weapons, and seen 2 thats totaly out of this rule, the Hellguns as they have a +10 kg backpack and the heavy stuber that has a 40 ammo clip and a 200 ammo clip ( considering it an ammo backpack ) but has the same weight...

and as I read somewhere on the forum, every heavy weapon has a backpack, so lets say I use a heavy bolter, with 60 ammo, but if that uses the backpack ammo, then I cant use the actual upgrade to make it use 300 ammo, or am I missing out something?