Hi everyone,

The guy who GMs our Dark Heresy campaign is letting me use a Kroot PC (since I'm GMing RT and thus can't play), but I was wondering how you would go about balancing that.

I was thinking of reducing starting characteristics by 5, changing Wounds slightly and changing Basic/Melee Weapon Training (Universal) to Basic/Melee Weapon Training (Primitive, maybe SP), getting rid of the Void Suit (just because) and... Somehow changing the XP advances. That is the most challenging thing, however... How would I change them?

Many thanks

Personally I would not change anything. To balance things out I would impose an XP penalty for the Kroot PC until the other characters are Rank 5. Lets say he gets only 50 to 70% of the XP the other characters get. Sort of like the "level adjustment" of old AD&D.

Good idea! I never would've though of that

My GM approves, too. Awesome.

SubtleCadaver said:

The entire group is executed for consorting with xenos.

Fortinbras said:

Unless the Xenos is sanctioned, or the Inquisitor says it's OK.

ItsUncertainWho said:

In which case most people don't care or don't know xenos can be sanctioned and try to shoot him anyway, and that pretty much is the negative to being a xenos, and in my opinion more than makes up for starting with some slightly higher stats.

What kind of game are you playing when having an obvious Xeno on the crew won't blow your cover or cause you major problems with everyone from local law enforcement all the way up to puritan inquisitors ?

MILLANDSON said:

I'm not sure if I'll be sanctioned or not. Good point, though.

Bilateralrope said:

If cover's an issue, I can rag up like a Muslim. Not intending this to be racist (people are really touchy nowadays), I just don't know what the outfit is called.

That, or since I've taken the Stalker Kindred, I can try to sneak. Failing may just bring death, though.

SubtleCadaver said:

Or, the kroot can be a part of the cover! Lets say the shuttle land on a run-down spaceport, and the city/planet surronding it are known for not treating members of the inquisition well (The group can be going there to investigate the eventuall disaperence of another group of acolytes). So, when the shuttle lands, the Kroot sneak away, using the awesome Stalker buffs. So, when the rest of the group exit the shuttle, the foreman/bribetaker of the spaceport comes up to them and says: "You! What the hell are "number here" well armed and well dressed people doing here!?" (He does not like authority). What the players do is hold up an image of the Kroot and say: "We are hunting a rogue Xeno. It is armed and dangerous. You see it, you call us."

The kroot can also be used to create a deviersion when the players get locked up in a social way, as in, being questioned by the arbiters or something of the kind. Nothing breaks the tension like someone shouting: "A Xeno! Kill it, kill it!!!"

Or stay hidden. Hidden works.

Nightsorrow said:

Hahaha, I love it. Great ideas

Yeah, of course, stay hidden by all means. I mean, everything is possible given your GM's permission. But it is not believable or in any way convincing. Xenos in DH acolyte team? Your inquisitor has to be a major xeno symphatizer or ally and even then things are complicated to the point of absurdity. How do you plan to remain hidden always? What do you do when you're in industrialized/civil area where there are xy loyal Imperial citizens who know all too well what to do when they see a xeno life form. Kill on sight. How can you explain your involvement into any kind of imperial business and claim you have a right to do so, and on top of that with blessings of Inquisition? And so on.

I mean, it can be a viable oneshot, where acolytes save you from Beast House and you maybe help them out. But an agent of Holy Ordos? I think not. Certainly I would never allow it. You can say or claim that I am a bad GM for it, but I do like fluff and it's "limitations". Just if something seems like a good and cool idea does not make it one. While this can work in Rogue Trader, it certainly won't in Dark Heresy, in my opinion.

I find amusing that in a setting as WH40K, where there is extreme variety even within the imperium, in fact so much that you can not really say there is a "norm" for something, so many fans assume that there is _one_ law and _one_ perspective that will be universal wherever you go. LOL. I find it most amusing to spice my game up with variety so that when the players have certain expectations, they can never be sure those will be met. For example, one of the first games I ran in Dark Heresy included an Eldar Outcast, because the inquisitor said it was ok. Which made the rest of the acolytes seriously question the motives of the inquisitor. They treated the eldar with a lot of suspicion, and was prepared for him to stab them in the back. This behavior continued over the course of the campaign. Until the end where they had to deal with a presumably loyal imperial guard regiment, that actually had fallen under the sway of of a cult leader and now served chaos. While the PCs kept a careful eye on their xenos, fearing treachery there, they did not even suspect it would come from the Imperial Guard captain. LOL. Behind them they had the imperial guard traitors lined up, covering their backs, in front of them they had their eldar outcast scout, and beyond the no-mans-land of the battlefield they where on, where the other group of cultists that kept everyone else from approaching a large altar while they worked on a ritual to summon a greater daemon. Had it not been for the eldar outcast, they would have perished in the fighting as both sides saw the acolytes as enemies. Add to that the twist that the "outcast" was actually sent to assist them on the order of an eldar farseer, so when everything seemed lost, suddenly an contingement of eldar appeared to drag the acolytes out of the fire, and allow them to stop the great ritual.

Sorry for derailing the thread. I just wanted to give an example of how you can actually use such aspects in the game to throw the players a curveball. Not everything is set in stone. And even the inquisition has radicals that will use any tool available to fight the greater evil.

Actually, there is one type of planet in the Imperium where it could work: A planet that has a large Tau presence (this happens often when the planet needs resources/military protection that the Imperium can't provide). While the Inquisitor may want to get rid of the Tau and their influence on the humans, he understands that it simply can't be done with the forces at hand (too many Tau supporters), so they just have to be put up with until the Imperium can afford to divert resources from the fight against the Tyranids.

But while the Tau are there, there are some threats that both agree need to be dealt with. Genestealer cults, harmful influence from other Xenos, daemon summoning cults, etc. So you have a situation where they are willing to work together and having a Kroot won't attract attention. It may even lessen it as most of the Inquisitors that operate openly are the "burn anyone suspicious" type, so working with an obvious xeno is a good way to ease suspicion that you are working for the Inquisition.

The Kroot would still be loyal to the Tau, so that dual loyalty could come into play.

Cardinal Nicodemus said:

Cardinal Nicodemus said:

Not an Agent; a mercenary. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the Inquisitor is a bit radical, and I can hide in plain sight a lot of the time, ie: covering up.

Arioch said:

I like that! It's a nice twist, and gives a lot of variety to a standard campaign

Bilateralrope said:

Good idea, but I'm thinking that I'll be more of a mercenary. AFAIK the Inquisitor doesn't care much that I'm a Xenos (he's not Ordo Xenos), and is probably just using me. You can't be certain, though.

Not an Agent; a mercenary. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the Inquisitor is a bit radical, and I can hide in plain sight a lot of the time, ie: covering up.

Covering up will work to a point (since Kroot do get the mimic talent you should be able to sound human quite easily). Problem is, once you get into a fight that gets your clothing torn (and you can't make the clothing too strong before it is strong enough to mess with the Kroots senses), it's going to be quite obvious that you aren't human. Especially if you get injured and a bystander goes to help you, only to mistake you for a mutant.

Looking at the pictures of Kroot in Into The Storm, there are a few details that will be very hard to disguise:

- The location of the bends on a Kroots leg (page 52). Especially when the Kroot is running.

- Having less fingers than a human.

- The quills at the back of a Kroots head. They look rather stiff in all pictures, meaning you will need very large headgear to hide them in.

- The beak being further forward of their neck than a human face on a human neck.

Then there is the problem of you feeding on corpses.

Good idea, but I'm thinking that I'll be more of a mercenary. AFAIK the Inquisitor doesn't care much that I'm a Xenos (he's not Ordo Xenos), and is probably just using me. You can't be certain, though.

While the Inquisitor might not care about employing a Kroot, he would care if the presence of the Kroot was disrupting his acolytes investigations, or causing them to have to kill loyal Imperium citizens regularly, because time spent killing loyalists because they saw a Kroot is time not spent dealing with cults. Unless the Inquisitor is very radical and using you to start conflicts with loyalists. But that kind of radicalism is walking a very fine line between other Inquisitors tolerating him or declaring him a traitor.

The problem isn't the Inquisitors attitude towards xenos, it's the attitude of loyal Imperium citizens towards xenos.

And I once more have to point out; The view of a "loyal imperial citizen" would vary where in the Imperium you are. On Terra, forget about trying to bring a xeno. On a fringe world where the ministorium have a low presence, possible. On a world where the human population have not had contact with the imperium for a long time, it could also work. It all depends on how their society and belief in the god emperor, or other religions, have developed. As I said, the imperium is not uniform. It is versatile in the extreme. Only unified by one thing; their belief in the God Emperor, and even that is not something that is clear cut and dry, but a cause for different perspectives, interpretations, and religious schisms.

If a Kroot is to be part of a group of acolytes, he can be sent there as representative of a rogue trader that is working with the Inquisitor. His presence will scare citizens on the most orthodox of worlds, and possibly cause problems. But problem with adeptus arbites, or other local law enforcement or other governmental groups can be handled by bringing a seal of sanctioning granted by the rogue trader. Still, the kroots presence is likely to cause tension and conflict.

It is much easier to use an Eldar in a Dark Heresy campaign as they are more "human" in appearance and can easily be disguised, or can blend in without drawing much attention. But it also depends on what kind of campaign you are running. Not every Inquisitor is low key and sneaks around in the shadows investigating. Some just down on a planet, pick up on what is the most likely "suspects" and clean house guns blazing. Dont limit your perspective of how the game can be played just because Investigation and social interaction are in focus in Dark Hersy. Also dont let it run to the extreme on the opposite end.

If I remember correctly in Rogue Trader (the first edition WH40K table top game) the Imperium even used some xeno mercenaries. I dont know how common this is in later revisions of the fluff. But certainly there should be places in the imperium where xenos are used rather than outright destroyed. Better them than your loyal citizens, right?

Arioch said:

Not to mention Spess Dwarves, zoats, Half-Eldar Chief Librarians and Inquisitor Sherlock Obiwan Clauseau...

I guess I'll just use a Scum or something instead.

Thanks for the comments, guys.

Arioch said:

I'm shocked you don't realize through your own huge posts how complicated you're making the issue. This is exactly why we're saying it's a bad idea.

I like complications in my gaming, it is just a matter of personal preference.