Would the Adeptus Arbites allow a rogue trader to walk in a hive world with a multi melta, or would they confiscate such a weapon, and similair (missile launchers), citing the risk to the citizens and structures.

Mainly looking for opinions/interpretations

I'm not sure the Arbites would get involved, but a planet may have various laws about who is allowed to carry what weapon around and, if it is an Imperium world, the Rogue Trader isn't above those laws.

A planet that didn't have laws against people carrying around any heavy weapon without permission would be a surprise.

Think about it in terms of what YOU as the GM want to have happen. My players once attended a banquet in their honour, where they were politely but firmly informed that attending dressed in their battle-scarred carapace armour lugging an orthlack chain cannon would not be in the spirit of the evening. An incident involving genestealer insurgents occured and my players had the fun of fighting them off with forks and spoons. They all had a riot of a time.

Outside the reaches of the Imperium, a Rogue Trader has full legal right to tell the Arbites to sod off. Whether or not that Arbites chooses to make things difficult for the Rogue Trader is another story. If he tries the same thing in Calixis, he'd have to fall back on his Influence to get around the law.

I, as a player, actually enjoy having a few sets of gear.

One set for when we are outside the reaches of the Imperium and need to break a few skulls to get things done. This is when my Explorator has his shoulder-mounted MIIU-linked Boltgun, Tau Pulse Rifle and a Meltagun, wears his full half-self-built power armor and carries enough prometheum to turn a Hive into the biggest pyre you've ever seen.

One set for planets outside the imperium, but where there are some laws we need to respect, but humping around in full wargear sticks out like a sore thumb. This is when his Dragonscale armor, Omnissian Axe and a suitable firearm or two come out of the arms coffer.

And lastly the fun part, when we need to travel inside the Imperium where Xeno-tech weapons are frowned upon, and power armor isn't part of everyday clothing =) Now I need to get inventive, hide things in Concealed Cavities, keep my Ballistic Mechadendrite folded away until I need it, try to get the most out of common weapons that don't raise any eyebrows.

I can usually get away with at least an ornate pistol and the Omnissian Axe, since it's considered a symbol of a Techpriest. But our group does tend to be paranoid and have weapons hidden away inside our Servitors if things get really nasty.

I think you need to look at the feudal nature of the imperium. Laws in feudal societies are hierarchical and the imperium is no different.

Because the RT is a high end noble many of the laws that constrain the average citizen do not apply to him even in the imperium, he is simply above them.

Like most nobles in the imperium he can get away with doing almost anything, and outside the imperium he can make up the laws as he goes. Take for example Krawkin Feckward from Lure of the Expanse, or the way the arbites reacted to the shootout on port wander in Into the Maw.

In short I would say that yes they could wander around with a melta as it would not actually be illegal (for them) though if you wanted to niggle them you could make the case that only the RT himself and other actual nobles in the party were exempt. It would also draw a lot of attention, it is a large, rare, and expensive weapon especially on the streets of a hive. In addition most non noble law enforcement personnel would simply look the other way as even if they managed to pin something on the RT and his group they have just annoyed someone who probably has the legal right to kill them (and any other commoner they felt like, though there would be other consequences). At the very least they would recognize the RT as someone with nearly infinitely greater power and not to be messed with.

llsoth said:

On the other hand a rare and expensive weapon might work FOR you in certain situations. In the upper hive, among other nobles and Rogue Traders an exotic or customized weapon is an item of prestige, more akin to jewelry than a tool.

But openly carrying a diamond-encrusted gold plated best quality bolt pistol in the underhive, you're just asking for trouble. That one pistol is most likely worth more than the whole section's life earnings.

I'm GMing a RT campaign and these are the rules I set:

Inside the Imperium and without a proper excuse or authorisation I ruled that the following is tolerated:

- Sidearm (pistols)
- Swords (the sign of a noble)
- Armour (as nobles they neede protection)
- 1 to 4 bodyguards armed with low yield longarms (Las or SP rifles) as an escort
- Symbolic Weapons (Omnisiah Axe, Navigator Staff, etc.)

Outside civilisation all bets are off and they can take along what they deem appropriate.

You have to think about what the Arbites, or other law enforcement will be thinking when they see a multimelta. Now Multimeltas are very much military weapons made for taking out heavy armour or melting through starship hulls during boarding actions. Carrying one around town is a clear sign that you intend to not only cause trouble, but cause trouble on the scale of requiring anti-tank weapons. Same goes for the missile launcher.

No one would blink at pistols and melee weapons (most melee weapons anyway), these are worn the same way a cowboy wore his pistol or a noble wore his sword.

Longarms (i.e. rifles) are tools and should only really be acceptable where they are needed. i.e. on a frontier world, a man carrying a rifle is just a practical fella going about his business. On a hive world in the nobility spires, carrying a rifle means you are a trouble maker (or an authorised user of it as a tool, i.e. an enforcement officer or nobility guard).

Heavy weapons are acceptable only where they would be needed. carry one into battle or around a warzone and no one will care, carry one around a hive and people see you coming and expect trouble. Expect escorts to double or treble and if you don't have an escort, you'l soon get one. Even if Arbites don't arrest you, expect them to approach you, warn you and follow you, even if they do it politely.

Same goes for armour really. An elaborate Carapace breastplate might go down quite well in nobility circles if one affects a military demeanour (Quite common with the Imperium being a martial society). Wearing full carapace however to a dinner party and it looks like you are expecting trouble. Wearing full carapace to a ceremonial falling out of the guard or military parade might be acceptable.

Power armour always equals trouble outside of directly military affairs. An inquisitor might wear it to help intimidate people and a rogue trader might wear it to put across the implicit threat (i.e. give me what i want or i'll blast your planet from orbit) but in civilised society, wearing power armour would draw huge amounts of attention and threat.

Guard Flak, ironically is probably the same as power armour. Its such a uttilitarian military piece of kit that it has no real place outside of military functions. A flak greatcoat however, could be worn pretty much anywhere.

It all comes down to context really and thinking about why people would be carrying/wearing whatever kind of gear in whatever kind of situation.

I think most of us agree that outside civilizations, we can bring whatever we want. We set the rules there.

Inside civilizations, I'd prefer Rogue Traders can bring whatever they want (at their own risk), since doing such things would attracts many things. Arbites can warn the Rogue Traders, but the Rogue Traders also can say "I'm a mighty noble, you bloody peasant!" (also at their own risk; reputations, favors, etc).

Oh and of course, there are also individiuals of great powers and nobility wo are equal to such Rogue Trader that can complicate things. A duel sounds fun.

But then again, those are just my opinions.

sonofbaal said:

In fact, they might be able to do so. In practice, that's a battle that they wouldn't pick. This isn't Dark Heresy and a bunch of acolyte muppets. This is a Rogue Trader, his digi-ring costs more than your car. Even if they did somehow manage to make a convincing case, the nightmare of legal trouble and lawyers that a Rogue Trader's PF entails would make it more trouble than it's worth.

Santiago said:

Those are terrible.

EDIT: Forgot to add. There's a level of difference between 'normal' cops on a planet and the Adeptus Arbites. In many cases the local Arbiter judge may be considered a peer to a Rogue Trader and any Arbiter is in their right to keep Imperial interests safe in the face of overarmed stupidity. They ARE the Emperor's law, not just man's law.

Gonna fall in on the side of the Rogue Traders can't just waltz around Scintilla with a multi melta and power armor while flipping off the local constabulary, and the Adeptus Arbites. Even in places like Footfall there are going to be laws prohibiting the carrying and use of 'military grade' weaponry. Fail to follow those laws and you should expect the GM to just collect your character sheet, and tell you to roll up an ork as your current character will either be gunned down, shot in the back of the head and tossed out an airlock, or arrested and likely executed for heretical levels of stupidity.

Being powerful doesn't make you immune to common sense, it simply warps the bar on it a wee bit.

So a few simple tips I give to my players on dressing for sucess

1) Most Void habitats, and even most ground side ones, will allow the wearing of minor weapons, and light armor. Heavy weapons could punch a hole in something vital....like the thing that keeps you breathing, and thus will be restricted to the owner's vessel, or kept in some kind of customs check area until they leave.

2) Wearing obviously expensive weapons and armor to places where people socialize and move amongst their circle of peers will generally be seen as crass, and ork like. You do not attend the wedding of the governor's daughter in battle scarred power armor, and waving a lascannon about. There will be exceptions of course, but most will simply have to make do with sidearms and fancy clothes. Buy a force field if it's such a problem.

3) People don't like big guns. Again, unless you're an ork waltzing about with mil spec equipment as easy as you breathe is not going to make people inclined to calm and polite conversation. At best you'll get a wary or guarded reaction. You may also get mugged for your shiny toys, or people may just flee screaming.

Imagine if a man in skull adorned powered armor, and a missile launcher walked into a Wal-mart......yeah.

4)Your ship, your rules. Other people's ships, their rules. Unless you're agressively debating who's the current owner of said vessel.

So uhmm. When they visit civilization, make sure to impress upon them that subtlety is more useful than raw firepower. But once they're out their in the void, the gloves can come off.

Santiago said:

I have to agree with Santiago on this.

Walking around a hive, or any other imperial planet with heavy weapons, even if you can as a RT, is going to get you a rhino or three full of Arbities tactical teams following you around.

This is why the compact trait exists. Get yourself a compact weapon and conceal it in a briefcase or other nondescript object.

There is a difference between something being illegal and something being considered crass, uncouth, silly, and in general poor taste. The consequences are very different.

Here is it a question for you. (it is a lot more complex than it seems).

What would happen if an RT shot a random commoner on the street in full view of the arbites or local enforcers and for no particular reason? When asked why he did it he says he was bored and wanted to liven up his day.

All the following assume the victim is just a random commoner and not a member of any of the adepta (which would have additional effects, imprisonment not being one of them)

Immediate effects:

The local law enforcement would move in to control the situation. The arbites if informed of the RTs identity would firmly and politely require that he come to the HQ and have his identity confirmed.

Intermediate effects:

After confirmation of his identity was confirmed he would be released. In order that the RT not be hassled by further trips to the police station, and to protect the RTs safety from a overzealous beat officer they would be given a carefully briefed escort of arbites/enforcers. This would be a large and obvious, and would go everyhere with him until he left the planet.

Extended effects:

His actions have been noted and people will react accordingly. Also any time the RT comes back to the planet his escort would probably be waiting for him. The RT may have annoyed the commoners actual lord, while the noble probably does not care about the commoner he might feel slighted that the RT felt it was ok to kill off "his" peasants.

If the individual was a member of an adepta (which are basically guilds) they would likely get involved in some manner, probably to demand some form of recompense. Relations with the adepta would also probably take a hit and need to be repaired.

Not illegal does not mean consequence free.

Really like the last line:

"Not illegal does not mean consequence-free"

llsoth said:

That whole post is pretty much what I was going to say. Just because a RT can walk around with a retinue toting chainfists, hellguns, and plasma cannons doesn't mean that there aren't things that the Arbites could do to discourage it. Lots of 'random' checks, investigating or otherwise disrupting contacts who don't have the same protection from the law, etc.

Basically, you just have to remember that, on any planet claimed by the Imperium, your powers technically count for naught, as a Rogue Trader's powers exist only outside the Imperium, unless stipulated otherwise.

As such, you can just tell that nobles wouldn't want you walking around with heavy weapons and the like in their spire, or even in their hive (though the further down you go, the less police there are around to stop you).

I'd suggest checking out the "Purge the Unclean" adventure book for Dark Heresy, as one of the adventures takes place in a hive, and covers the laws and suchlike for carrying weapons and armour around the hive spire, namely nothing bigger than a basic weapon (bolters for body guards are pretty much the maximum) and no walking around in power armour or other military grade armour/weapons, since it is uncouth and suggests you are planning to start trouble.

Therefore, smaller firearms and more concealable armour (like flak armour in a coat, mesh armour, etc) are the orders of the day.

@Santiago: Those are pretty much the rules I use, with a few tweeks.

@Fortinbras: Ahh, is this more of your "Rogue Traders can do what they want and no one can stop them ever?" horribly impolite complaining about others following the fluff as it is in the rulebook and other sources again?

I'd assume the whole thing is horribly situational. When spotting such a Rogue Trader, local enforcers would likely try to unobtrusively slow him down while one of them frantically voxes for an arbitrator, a nobleman or a diplomat since they're way out of their league and can only lose - either they're reprimanded by their superiors for not acting decisively enough or they're reprimanded for bothering an important Rogue Trader.

As soon as someone with a little more authority comes along, it depends on how well the RT can present himself and what's known about him (aka Profit Factor). In the worst and probably most usual case on major hive worlds, he'd be firmly asked to strip down to more representative weapons (a side-arm for himself and basic weapons for his bodyguards) while in the more-or-less best case they'd leave his weapons be, but assign a subtle escort as long as he remains on the streets. Leaving the RT unsupervised would require quite some clout.

However, you can get away with quite a bit if you know how - as long as you're not going to a state dinner, a bodyguard with light power armour would be quite acceptable and even then there are many forms of armour and weaponry that can be passed off as militaristic chic as Gribble noted.

MILLANDSON said:

I had to explain this to my players in yesterday's game when they felt that they could get actively involved in The Cold Trade within the Imperium with no consequences...

And really, as per Fortinbras, we should be used to that at this point...*GRIN*

L-

MILLANDSON said:

Just to play devil's advocate here, but in the very book we're talking about, not to mention the wikis etc, it is established that a Rogue Trader, especially one of an old warrant is an equal of Space Marine Chapter Masters, Inquisitors, Lord Generals, and Planetary Governers.

So it is perfectly fluffy for a Rogue Trader to tell a low ranking arbities or the like to stuff it. Wise? Maybe not. But they could definitely get away with it.

Even if their legal powers end once within the imperium, an interpretation I'm not overly fond of*, most Rogue Traders are wealthy beyond my ability fathom, and supremely connected. Never underestimate the ability to bribe, or have your important friends to put pressure on the people hassling you to. Of course just because you can bribe everyone up to the sector commander to look the other way regarding your obvious crimes against the God-Emperor doesn't mean that some Arbites, won't have a higher commitment to the law.

*Pretty much what Madadh just said. Outside the Imperium they may as well be The Emperor, inside it I think the should 'just' be near the top of the food chain. They are described as Peers of the Imperium after all.

In my games, I take their Profit Factor/Influence as a measure of how well they're respected and/or feared within the Imperium. Below 30 or so, they're little more than affluent Free Captains. Above 50, they can begin to exert their will freely. Over a hundred and there'll be a red carpet laid out from the landing port right around the continent to the Governor's residence.

Errant said:

That is all fair enough. The thing to remember is that a Rogue Trader has no official authority inside the Imperium, so if they run into a governor who doesn't want anyone carrying heavy weapons around on his planet, and is unwilling to be bribed, then the RT has no option but to comply.

Outside the Imperium they could try to use force to enforce their wish after diplomacy and/or bribery have failed. Inside it, such threats will attract the attention of groups like the Imperial Navy and Inquisition. Actually carrying them is probably going to be the kind of thing that gets a warrant revoked.

Perhaps what they could do is hire bodyguards from the Arbites - or charm or bribe the governor into ordering the Arbites to bodyguard them. For a visiting noble to be attacked would, after all, be a major diplomatic incident. I figure it'd be like having a foreign dignitary visit in the current day - sure you may disagree with his polotics, but his government controls vital resources and will probably react badly to (successful or not) attacks on their boss. Plus, he has an orbiting death fortress floating above your planet.

Some cops do do bodyguard/security work on the side at the moment, I know.

I think a bigger danger for rogue traders would be having stuff they wanted to do on planet and contiually being distracted by invitations to all kinds of political events they can't really refuse without offending someone:

"I need to research X"

"But my Lord, you've been invited to the party of Lady Reginex! She's the only source of Sprockets on planet! If we don't turn up to her party, then we won't be able to repair the damage to our macrobatteries!"

That comes accross as a bit farcical, but you know what I mean.

Of course, a wise (or devious - which is the same thing for rogue traders, really) rogue trader might have an attack on himself planned in order to put himself in a position where he can be offended and "refuse" to deal a planet anymore - or put an embargo in place with other rogue traders due to their poor treatment, cutting it off from necessary supplies, in order to place himself in a position where the planetary officials will be falling over themselves in order to offer him concessions to continue trading with them. This would be particularly effective if a planetary governor or security official had refused the rogue trader access to weaponry and equipment he felt was necessary for his personal safety.

Bilateralrope said:

Will someone please tell me where this comes from? I cannot find anything that supports the idea that a Rogue Trader suddenly becomes a powerless schmuck with a ship as soon as he steps within the bounds of the Imperium. In the Rogue Trader book it clearly stats that Rogue Traders are considers peers in the Imperium nobility and upper rank structure.

A Space Marine chapter master doesn't technically have the authority to order around a planetary governer either, but do you think the average governer or imperial guard commander is going to even think about telling him what to do?