Terminator Armor requires 100 Requisition to obtain. 60 Requisition for the armor and 40 Requisition to arm it. The list of Terminator weapons is very specific. If a player has spent his Requisition on Signature Wargear to acquire a Mastercrafted Power Sword and a Mastercrafted Power Fist--which could be used in arming a suit of Terminator Armor, could he take Signature Wargear (Hero) to acquire a suit of Terminator armor and utilize his existing gear to Arm the suit of Terminator Armor?

As I already dummy my Kill-Team(who decided not to have an Apothecary), having one of them in Terminator Armor to soak hits strikes me as a great idea, but I am unsure if Signature Wargear (Hero) was intended to interact with Terminator armor in the above way.

While I know I could simply GM fiat this, I would like to hear what others think. Would other GMs allow a Battle-Brother to requisition just the armor if he already had compatible weapons for it? Do the rules forbid this?

I am split on the idea myself. But I would lean toward allowing it more than not.

On fluff, I'd say not really to letting signature wargear to let him keep it. Terminator armor is rare and got a whole mythos around it. Now, I would say it could be allowed if someone did something really high up there with it, to be awarded the armor for some very heroic merrit, or maybe if he req'd it alot, and the team happened to recover an ancient set perhaps the artificer could cook it up.

Mechanically? Tough choice. It would mean youd have to have that hanging over your head as a GM every session.

I don't think it would be a big problem to allow the PC to take the armor as signature wargear, especially considering they're already up there in rank to even be able to wear it in the first place.

From a GM perspective, I'd not be all that worried about terminator because I have unlimited bad guys to create a challenge for the character. Once I got past the jump from DH level toughness and armor to DW level toughness and armor, I just haven't had the same issue with those types of bumps in power. There's also plenty of missions I can think of where terminator armor could be a liability over a benefit (missions where you need to be fast, or need to be stealthy, or need to fit in small (relatively) spaces, so the choice of spending that much on a signature terminator suit could be a difficult choice for the player as well.

Mechanically I have no problem with it. As a balance, there are times when termie suits just aren't viable, and they'll have to use normal power armour.

Fluff-wise, it's more of a problem. There are a lot of deathwatch and not many suits. It's highly questionable whether the Watch are just going to hand over a suit for one Marine's personal use, as it means that suit is then not available for others to use.

Crux Terminator is the main issue. Why should a rank 1 have a crux?

If i am not wrong a well built techmarine coudl soak nearly as much without the terminators issue.

A tactical dreadnought armor is not something you see every day and never on non Crux veteran...

IMO!

crisaron said:

Eh? Nobody is saying Rank 1. We're actually saying rank... is it 7 when you get relic wargear?

Siranui said:

Its impossible to get Terminator armor at Rank 1. The soonest this player would get it is around Reknown 60+, via requisition at rank 4 or so I believe he wants to try to requisition Terminator Armor via Signature Wargear (Hero) from Deathwatch Champion. In response to an earlier post about the armor being a valued relic and it would prevent others of wearing it; if he were to get the armor, he would be a Deathwatch Terminator(simply by virtue of him being a Deathwatch Champion entrusted with a suit of terminator armor) at that point and he would be the designated warrior for it.

With that said, I think that is justification enough. If hes rank 5 with 60+ reknown, he'll have earned his right to the armor. Hm. Or will he? I guess we'll have to see how how he proves himself between now and Rank 5. Thanks for the input guys.

If it is their signature wargear, I'd almost think they were getting it from their home chapter, because they will likely leave the deathwatch some day, and wouldn't take it with them.

Fenrisnorth said:

I initially thought that too, but now that I think about it in detail, ho would the home chapter know that they were cool enough for such an honor, it's not like the DW reports back to the chapter the deeds this guy has done. And also, would the home chapter bestow that honor on a brother who isn't actively serving in the 1st Company?

It might be worth considering an added rank/renown requirement to make it a 'permanent' fixture for the character.

Fenrisnorth said:

Yup. Which is an even better reason not to allow it. What Chapter is just going to mail a suit of termi armour off to the Deathwatch for classified reasons for....well... as long as they want it.

I can see no fluff or mechanical reason why this shouldn't be allowed as long as a couple of conditions are met:

1. The character in question has the Crux Terminatus.
2. The character in question has the required Renown Rank to obtain Terminator Armour in the first place.


Assuming those two conditions are met, I would allow Signature Wargear (Hero) to be used to purchase a suit of Terminator Armour for 60 Req. All I would stipulate to the player is that if the missions Req allocation is lower than 40 (ie. not enough to arm the suit), then he would be unable to take it and would be forced back into his standard issue Power Armour. If he has used the other Signature Wargear opportunities within his advance tree to take a Power Sword, Storm Bolter or any other Terminator-compatible weapon, then that's fine as well - as long as he is capable of being fully armed at the start of a mission then he can take the Terminator armour along with him. Otherwise it stays at home.

And if a player insists on taking TDA on every mission then adjust the missions to include things that are dangerous even to him OR, even better in my opinion, make it so he is left behind due to his size in certain places.

And be a total d-bag because the player isn't playing the character the way YOU want him to play it. by going defensive instead of mastercrafting his weapons!

Fenrisnorth said:

So as soon as someone wants to use Terminator armour, you should completely discard missions requiring stealth and subtlety?

Personally, I determine missions for my group completely independently of the wargear they have. It's their choice what they want to take on a given mission, and their choices are what will determine their success or failure.

Fenrisnorth said:

You'd rather the GM bowed to you and never ran another mission that required running, stealth, climbing a ladder, or walking through a swamp? Terminator Armour is only suitable for some missions. Maybe 50% if you're lucky. It's the player's choice to spend their relic wargear slot on something that can't be used half the time.

I'm not saying missions shouldn't have parts like that, but the post I responded to seemed to be advocating putting them in to SPITE the guy in terminator armor. And adversarial GMs end not just games, but campaigns, and entire gaming groups.

The other option is to allow the PC to wear Artificer Armour. More resilient, and also stealthy too. Done!

And after all you can ONLY get artificer armour as wargear, not from standard requisition.

Fenris brings up another freat reason not to allow it without some consideration: Because there WILL be times when it's not viable to take it, and some players then sulk massively, argue, or get a persecution complex. I've noticed that this is also common amongst snipers when you tell them that there's nowhere they can snipe from... Some players invest heavily in something then throw toys out of the pram when it's not usable ALL the time.

Well, the character in question is an assault marine, so when he wears terminator armor, he gives up the double-movement-speed buff of his jump pack. Its a pretty huge trade off, trading speed for the extra 4-6 points of armor. Terminator Armor is actually (reknown wise) easier to acquire than Artificer Armor. Artificer Armor is freaking amazing. Armor 12 everywhere, plus he could wear his jump pack? I think i'd rather have him in Terminator armor and watch him hustle around all turtle-like.