Question on timeing

By Ivengar, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

Posted at

Lets say I win an intrigue challange with Dornish Paramour:

Response: After you win a challenge in which Dornish Paramour participated, discard it from play to draw 2 cards.

My opponent has one card in his hand:

A lannister Pays his Debts:

Response: After you lose a challenge, kneel one of your Lannister characters to choose and kill a participating character controlled by the winning opponent.

They are both responses, so the question(s) are:

Can my opponent play ALPHD after the determine winner of challenge phase but before the callenge result is implemented? There for not getting it discarded. And if he can play it and chooses my Paramour can I still trigger her response? And lastly if He can use ALPHD and the DP can still trigger after being its target whould the DP go to the discard pile or the dead pile?

Thanks!

Posted at

The response window opens up for everybody in step 4 of the challenge resolution framework action window (see FAQ for details). I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the first player has the first response opportunity, and from there it's clockwise as usual. So if he is first player (or sits to your right in a melee game when the first player sits to your left), he can play ALPHD and choose your DP to be killed. When that happens, you cannot trigger DP's response because it requires you to remove her from play (by discarding her) which you cannot do because she has already been removed (by being killed), i.e. DP is in a moribund state (again, check FAQ for details on the moribund state).

Posted at

Ivengar said:

Can my opponent play ALPHD after the determine winner of challenge phase but before the callenge result is implemented? There for not getting it discarded.
noteverything involved in resolving that challenge has been completed. So no, your opponent cannot Respond to losing the challenge before claim is settled. You both have to wait until the challenge results are completely settled before either of you can play Responses (to anything that happened, in any order).

It's a common mistake in this game - wanting to Respond to "framework event #1" before "framework event #2" takes place. But you have to wait.

Other than that general timing clarification, everything Saturnine says about the situation - and the order of Responses being set by First Player status - is right on the money.

Posted at

ktom said:

No. Even though resolving a challenge creates a number of different Response opportunities (eg, winning/losing the challenge, whatever the challenge result/"claim" is for the particular challenge, claiming power for Renown, etc.), you do not get to play Responses to each opportunity as it is created. For example, you cannot Respond to winning/losing the challenge until everything involved in resolving that challenge has been completed. So no, your opponent cannot Respond to losing the challenge before claim is settled. You both have to wait until the challenge results are completely settled before either of you can play Responses (to anything that happened, in any order).

That's what I meant to say with my first sentence. Of course, I made a mistake and wrote step 4 instead of step 5.

Posted at

Saturnine said:

That's what I meant to say with my first sentence. Of course, I made a mistake and wrote step 4 instead of step 5.
Posted at

Thanks guys. Our little group is slowly learning the rules!