I have spent a fair bit of time reading up on 3rd edition and listening to the few available pod casts outlining how the system plays.

From what I had read and heard it seems that it is a system that I would really enjoy as I love the setting and it would provide a change to the Pathfinder campaign I currently run.

I had initially wanted to go down the hardcover guide/vault path as I prefer hardcover books as opposed to those in the core set and was prepared to outlay a sizeable chunk of money to purchase the system for our regular gaming group.

When I log onto the forums today and see all the negativity surrounding the quality of the editing and missing components in the guides/vaults I can't help but feel very hesitant about committing to the system.

I am not a stranger to FFG and their products (have Descent & Dark Heresy RPG line) and have firsthand knowledge of previous sloppy editing errors.

My question is...is now a bad time to jump in and commit to a system in light of the supposed errors/ missing cards and unclear rules clarifications.

Are the guides/vaults now reduced to the least desired option due to quality?

Is a reprint or solution to the problem likely to be forthcoming in the short term?

I had fully intended to send an order off in the next few days and was quite excited about introducing the system to our group but this news has dampened my enthusiasm quite a bit to the extent that I'm not sure if I will even commit to the range now.

Any feedback or clarification appreciated

No it isn't. If you're familiar with FFG's products you know what to expect.

Mostly it's minor stuff. Annoying yes. But mostly minor.

I had the same thought about a month ago, but with me I wanted to go the cheapest route possible as I love the Warhammer setting but thought the 3e system sounded horrible, and the three of my players who had played Warhammer before, were very negative about the new system. With that in mind I went on a search to find the Players Guide as cheap as possible, instead I picked up the Core box set for £28.00 off e-bay, this was the best move I have ever made!

Everything I thought I would hate about the system, turns out I love. The dice make it very easy for a GM to say "yes but", they have also started to make my players (new and old) very very creative and descriptive, the fatigue system is one of the best I've seen in a RPG, many other systems make it very easy to forget fatigue, 3e builds it right into the heart of the game. I thought the game would feel less dark, but this is not true, and while there is less whiff factor in combat, fighting still feels dangerous. The biggest success for the system, is that the player who I thought would be the hardest sell, actually thought this was the best version of the game he had ever played.

The main problem with the Vaults, is that even if you buy them all you will still need to get Winds of Magic, Signs of Faith and the Adventurers Tool Kit as those cards are not in the Vaults. As for the Guides, They seem to be beset by the same problems as the books in the box set, and I have had no problem understanding the rules (although you should think of them as more like guide-lines!). Any problems you have will soon be cleared up by the FAQ pdf of on these forums.

I think now is a great time to get into the system (no system is perfect and at least FFG has got the errata out quickly), personly I would go Box set, it gets you started playing really quickly with no other outlay to pay and you can get it cheap off of E-Bay (a guy in the UK is selling new copies for £36).

Hope that helps

Mike

Get the core set and forget about the Guides/Vaults for now, it will have everything you need to start a game anyhows

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I really like the idea of the Hardcover collection plus vaults but may have to grab the core box from the sound of it even though its my least preferred method.

This is a tough question. I've bought everything available so far. If I know ahead of time I'd still have a hard time.

You'll get more updated, correct information by buying the hard books, including more creatures and of course dice (which are pricey). And frankly I didn't think the GM guide would be that necessary as an initial buy. You could go with the Players guide and Creature guide and stop there, see what you think and move on. Of course, you'll need dice.

However, I LOVED the core box. With the errata and a few scans in this message boards, you'll get everything you need to start an adventure. If your players enjoy it, then go out and make a bigger investment.

If my opinion, the creature vault or creature guide would be your next purchase.

Have your players buy the player's vault

Then if someone want magic have them buy the vault, same with signs of faith

At that point all the extra rules for corruption, faith, etc and covered in the hard books.

I thought the GM vault was ok. (but still bought it anyways...)

So just to make sure I didn't confuse...my advice, buy the core box, play and then take it from there!

I would recommend the following purchases.

GM (you): Core Set, Creature Vault, Players Guide

Players: Players Guide, Players Vault (if you need the extra bits)

Adventure: Edge of Night (great follow up to Eye for an Eye and Ubersreik makes a fantastic home base)

Don't buy the GM's Toolkit or the Players Toolkit though..I really do not like their GM screen and the tips in the book are pretty worthless consider the price you pay.

'at's my two cents.

in that following order :

1) corebox : everything useful, main action cards and talents, a lot of dices. 60$ amazon. Only 3 gods and winds of magic. An excellent adventure, a bestiary and you may download the 2 official demos to begin.

2) SIgn of Faith and Winds of Magic : 40$ each. diseases + remaining blessing, gods and careers + 1 nice adventure + nurgle bestiary for the first, mutation + remaining spells, winds and careers + 1 excellent adventure + tzeentsch bestiary for the second.

3) Adventures : 40$ each. Gathering Storm (4 deeply linked adventure in a campaign), Edge of the night (skaven, ubersreik detail and masquerade), Witche's song (Witchcraft around marienburg)

4) Adventurer Toolkit : 20$. More career (and excellent ones : ratcacher and his dog, swordmaster, ironbreaker... !) Might be bought with the corebox if you have got some extra buckets.

5) creature's Vault : to get all the creature cards, making the game more fluid and logical. You don't need that from the start.

you may forget the Guides : expensives, not so useful, and crippled with mistakes.

If you have some bucks left, Gamemaster's toolkit is a nice option with some more component. The book himself is not very useful but nice.

I love the dice system. When I play any other game system, it just leaves me 'wanting' now (regarding the dice)

jh

Dice mechanics, ability recharge, progress trackers and lethality are pretty good in this edition. All of this really shine whit components in play, of course.

As i always done, i suggest you to focus on the essential, so buy:

1) the core box

2) an extra dice set

This is all you need to taste the system "as meant to be played"... forget completely the guides crap! (which tourned out also pretty bugged for a "clean up re-relise" of the sistem, after all!)

If u dont want to write your own adventures, u also need a scenario module. then i'll suggest:

3) the witch's song

Which include everything u need (also some related creature's card previously found only on GM vault) to run this adventure.

Whit this products i'm confident u will able to make your own honest opinion on the system, and by the end of the adventure u will be able to choose how many money invest in future expansions (nominally others adventures, the 4 chaos gods expansions and the GM vault, wich is quite handy)

I'll jump in here and offer a counter-opinion on the Player's Guide (PG) and GM's Guide (GMG), as well as the Player's Vault (PV), vs the Core boxed set. I can't speak to the GM's Vault because I don't own it yet, but it looks good as far as I can tell.

I actually prefer these two guides vs the Core set. The hardcovers feel nicer than the softcover books by a mile, and having a list of all the careers, talents, party sheets and action cards from multiple expansions in one book (the PG) has proven to be a great resource. Plus, the PG has quite a few minor clarifications/rules changes that you won't find in the Core set rulebooks.

It's true that the PG introduced some needless errors for a reprint (10 by my count), and while this is understandably upsetting, if you take the total errors from the PG and the GMG (which is zero as far as the new FAQ lists), I believe they are still less than those found in the Core. That's a definite pro.

As for the Player's Vault, it includes the corrected cards for Double Strike, Rapid Fire, and the Aqshy Order. If you buy the Core it will come with the old/incorrect versions of these cards. That's a definite con. The PV also has 3 sets of basic action cards. If you get the Adventurer's Toolkit, which I highly recommend, that will give you enough cards to run 4 players without sharing.

In the end, I've learned that it's having the right rules on the components vs in the books that matters most. Errata for the books can be printed off and kept in a binder. Cards printed off at home just don't have the same feel or quality as those provided with the game. Maybe I'm shallow, but for me one of 3E's draws was all the cool bits and dice - I'm into visuals! When I'm forced to play with sub-standard components, I'm not happy.

The one guide/vault combo I would stay away from is the Creature Guide + Creature Vault. This is a shame because it has so much new material, and had the potential to really help the GM with tracking monster actions in combat. As it stands, it's quite a mess (20 errors listed in the most recent errata... so far). I'm waiting for a second printing, or I'll simply pass on it if FFG doesn't release one with updated rules or components.

My last thought: If you're a collector and plan on getting everything anyway, you might consider the Core set for the stand-ups, extra cards and dice (thereby skipping the GM's Vault). Then, cut off the spines of the various softcover rulebooks and sleeve them into a 3-ring binder. This way the books will lay perfectly flat, making them easier to use during a session.

Furthermore, you could print off the errata from FFG's site and sleeve that too, giving you all the up-to-date rules in an easy-to-reference binder. You could also take out or rearrange the pages/rules that you use the most, or hand out a page(s) to a player if they have a rules question and you don't want to get bogged down searching for it.

For personal reading and enjoyment (and to keep them in good condition if that is important to you), you'll have your hardcover books up on a shelf, far away from your players' grubby hands. That's my ultimate plan at least.

Sincerely,

Yipe

You know what? The worst editing I've ever encountered in FFG products is just the occasional pair of words that are missing their space and a repetition of a word here or there. Their errata-ble mistakes are no greater than any other games company out there.