Heretek said:

Yes you are simply stating the facts...that you're overreacting. you say that the game is not broken, yet spends an absurd amount of money of getting the streamlined, proof-readed version. Man FFG gotta love you. They should do a collector's errata edition just for you.

And wanting to fire a person, take away his job for THIS? and the whole petition thing. oh the jokes are on you guys. I'm amused. You gotta admit Heretek that you were over the top.

good gaming. and for everybody else that feels offended please make a Reality check (simple d0).

ps: I will not sign any petition.
pss: I was going to say that I had other more important things to do, but than again I found time to answer this. So I quess that would be a lie.
psss: and for the record I do agree that FFG should do more to avoid bad spellings and such.

I'll sign the petition...with my wallet. Capitalism is king. Yes I am a spoiled American and have tons of disposable income. And when that precious resource goes to waste on **** products i move on to the next one. Screw the people who are starving in other countries, that's not what this is about.

Its quite simply about: If FFG is pushing this card mechanic for their new fancy streamlined: 'spend your money with us' product then they should have thought about making their product better.

That being said, in the past FFG has sent out replacement cards for people (TI:3 for example). They can fix this but I doubt they will. So i will take my disposable income elsewhere.

WFRP, I'm out. Thanks it was fun.

Hey Mal,

I'm just saying that its not only spelling mistakes that have people concerned, its the lack of quality control with the rules. That coupled with the promises for a fix to the problem with the new Guides and Vaults but they have just caused more confusion. That's what makes us "terrible 1st world citizens', (whatever the **** that means), a little irked that is all.

Thanks Mr. Chompsky.... I mean Necrozius...... for the socio-political lesson and analysis (I never bought into the whole social studies telling me how the world works mindset. Would the real Noam please stand up?). I was unaware that they sold FFG products in Darfur, Rawanda, or Myanmar, or that people who were truly concerned about the state of the world posted their economic and moral beliefs on boardgame company forums for that matter.

P.S. I've been really racked lately trying to find employment in the "super rich" country that I live in and so have only done a bit of work on our project Mal. It'll come around though man I've got some good ideas. When are you next free to have a chat?

Necrozius said:

Well personally, and you can call me a terrible person and all but what goes on in Sudan is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand and this sounds like your just projecting your own personal problems. I'm sure that if a Sudanese man goes and buys rice and the amount is not what was promised he would be upset as well, since a consumer is a consumer and this is about getting the value promised in the exchange. Personally I work hard for my money so it has a value to me, perhaps you get your money from another source.. mom and dad or perhaps the public state dole? either way I don't have income to throw away and wish I had a reason to have your attitude concerning it.

Mal Reynolds said:

This one is far more insulting than the one necro wrote so here's a reply...

I bought the first core set for $99 and said nothing about it's issues, than I shelled out more $$$ for a set of books that promised to correct the errata that was not delivered as promised.. personally I'm not sweating the expense, I'm simply upset that i payed for the same product twice and did not get what was promised the second time. I like WFRP so to invest a bit in it is ok in my book but if they ask for a third go at getting it right than I think it's time to move on to something else and to another company that is either not as incompetent or shady. It's a simple business decision nothing more, nothing less and companies that value it's customers (read- me) get my dollars and those that don't simply don't. The game is not broken.. we simply want the value that we paid for in the way of components simple as that! For the record, I run my own company and yes if I employed some idiot who could not get this right twice they would be seeing the door pretty fast and someone with competence would be brought in to correct the matter, since frankly the current editor and proof readers have done such a shoddy job. Anyway I'm going to shut up and sign a petition and see how FF reacts and if they correct their mistakes as opposed to dealing with flames such as this.. You admit there are problems but think everyone is over reacting, You think that buying this twice makes us a sucker and FF must "love" me yet.. we are over reacting, so Mat whats your point? except to flame bait?

Necrozius said:

is this comparison a joke? please tell me it is.

I was hoping for this time leasure to be free from the political propaganda. I have enough of that here in Sweden (aka Little Sovjet).

Please keep this forum free from RL politics and focus on the issues in The Old World instead. Hide whatever you feel deep down there. Hate the Emporer for all the taxes or love the Witch hunters for keeping the country clean.

And if someone is so keen on fighting the unjustice in RL, don't write it on a game site. Get your ass off the chair and go fight it.

Hail Sigmar!

Necrozius said:

I'm not angry about the hobby at all. In fact, I deeply enjoy it. But this thread isn't about "the hobby", it's about the production quality of a particular RPG on the market. The remainder of your post amply demonstrates that one of us fails to put this in proper perspective. I've seen defensive FFG fanboys before, but you've certainly stepped over a line here.

Necrozius said:

I AM from a third world country, Bolivia, and should had i bought the products, i would be more pissed of even. About your example of killed parents and danfur, here we are in an state of silence ,crime rises, drug cartels are more strong than ever, and our corrupt dictator masked as a democrat just supports them. So yeah , there are a lot of problems , thats why many of us want to play this hobby in the first place, and are willing to pay a expensive price for this games, just to be free of the dementia of the real world for a while at least. And it kinds of pisses of to see that all this money is not enough , for having a properly edited game. I agree that calling this an insult is a little to exxagerate ,but the reasons for it stands

I fully support this, and hope FFG do something, so we dont lose all this fine community and hobby just for some production mistakes, i am myself considering wether to buy the core set with some vaults ,or not, and as i see it now, i t seems better to wait until they fix this, especially since most of my players only speak spanish, i believe it will be a mess of a confusion

In the real world, people sign petitions for social causes. Or to protest against some new legislation because it interferes with human rights. Or maybe to stop someone from getting the death penalty.

The hurt and nerd rage is... just... OFF putting. And hilarious.

Call me a fanboy all you want: I'm not the one SCREAMING about typos in a role playing game. Yeah they suck but hey: this game is all about creativity. You find two contradictory rules? CHOOSE ONE and GO WITH IT.

Heretek said:

Flame bait that was my point! the whole point and nothing next (ironic tone). Get me right I have nothing against people complaining about a bad product. But there's complaining and COMPLAINING. Get some perspective and and don't threaten to fire people Big Boss, just because they made a mistake. we all do mistakes, not only once but even twice. my mistake was getting involved in all this.

Heretec, i'm sure you're a nice fellow, If we met at a CON we would propably talk enthusiastic about our hobby and even have a game or two together. And if you mentioned what you said on this thread to me during this hypothetical game. I would say "now that is crazy talk, come on lets finnish the game".

And that would probably be the end of it. we would have our game. and neither of us would get insulted by this enchange of opionions. Because we both love to play our games. (note my reconscilliating tone in this letter).

So lets finnish this game, by agreeing we both maybe went a tiny bit over the top.

ps; sorry about all this. And good gaming

The Strolling Bones said:

I get what you're saying, and I agree that FFG should do more to avoid these things from happening in the future. I just thought that some people complained in a way that was totaly blown out of proportions. So I spoke my mind.

you had a very firm and realistic way of handling it, more than I can say on my behalf. But I had made my peace offering.

About our project... I'm a bit under the weather right now, but we should try to get together by the enf of the work week (thinking tomorrow or friday). Got this headaches from another dimension going on right now. shouldn't have read the Pnakotic fragments without my warm milk.

but yeah lets have another telephone meeting by the end of work week.

Good gaming

sincerly Mal aka Richard.

Since I think the Creature Guide is not really well organized, I was very disappointed to see all these erratas on the same book.

I didn't start this thread to begin a skirmish here I just hope, FFGfan's initiative will allow all of us loyal customers and players of wfrp3 to benefit of errata'ed cards in the next product.

Peace to all of you, even if I can't speak english as well as I hear or read it.

Would all of those complaining be willing to pay more for the product were it better edited? Alternatively, what features would you be willing to get rid of to pay for that editing?

The reason there are mistakes is because the WFRP team doesn't have the resources (money) to have a more thorough editing process. It's not like they are sitting at their desks laughing maniacally at how they suckered us into buying poorly edited products. They have so many resources and sometimes only so much time (have to get things out by GenCon/Christmas/etc).

If they are like most other RPG teams, they are already spending a great deal of off-hours time working on it. Should they be spending more of their free time editing?

Thorough editing takes man-hours, which translates to cash. The WFRP team works on a budget, and to add more time to editing means taking away somewhere else.

I agree that they should focus more on editing, but it's not as simple as some of you are making it. All the claims of "insulting" and whatnot are just naive to how publishing works.

Of course, if you were willing to put your money where your mouth is, then maybe you should contact FFG and tell them to charge more to cover their editing costs.

The Strolling Bones said:

Hey Strolling, I'm what could be called a social worker, from a called Third World Country, and I'm still writing at nerd forums and thinking FFG could pay a little extra care for the revision of their products, specially the non-book components. well, usually I'm not writing about my social ideas... but I was thinking about an article using Foucault to address how the Warhammer World could have a lot of coexisting, conflicting paradigms about madness.

Anyaways, I'm trully lost in this thread, since obviously I don't have the fine reading qualities of english speaking people. So I don't exactly know what is an over-reaction.

But I do think you should be able to earn a comfortable living just from your music, anywhere in the world. That would sure help everyone to live in a better place (and I'm serious), as it would be a great world indeed. :]

Specially: what are you two guyes planning??? I'm curious!!!

Well, good work and good gaming!

Doc, the Weasel said:

Another option is to slow down their release schedule to allow more time for editing. Obviously, this would eat into their profits (as it's a licensed product, and fewer releases equals less money), but this would also result in a better game for their customer to enjoy. Is FFG willing to make that trade off? Right now, it looks like the answer is no. However, other companies have.

A good example of this is AEG's Legends of the Five Rings 4th edition. L5R 3E was notorious for being plagued with bad editing which hurt its reputation (and probably the game's sales). The AEG design team made a conscious decision to slow down the number of releases for their relaunch of L5R 4E, ensuring that each product they put out contained fewer errors.

Was their decision successful? Hard to say, but I refused to buy any L5R 3E books and I've bought all of the 4E material so far, so they got my money (and I rarely purchase RPGs).

Would the fans of WFRP 3E be willing to see fewer releases for their game each year if it meant less errata?

All the other products from the WFRP3 line were really fine to me except these guides and vaults. Still Uber fan

It's sure too bad for the creature vault and guide which offers new content.

Here is the new FAN LIVING FAQ/ERRATA: docs.google.com/document/pub

What did we miss?

jh

Windjammer said:

I agree with Windjammer. I love FFG and think their products are, for the most part, stellar; however, they should utilize quality control to slightly better effect. It would be one thing if this were a lone instance in a vast sea of perfect quality, but that's not the case and hence the concern. I am not in the least bit angry, just concerned for all involved including those at FFG. I know that they pride themselves on quality and they are going to loose some customers if this issue is not addressed. I'm being rational, Necrozius is just being confrontational.

I know its not perfect but just started to make PROPER cards. Here is the first one:

will make rest if it with updated strange eons plugin later.

Yipe said:

Thanks to both of you for steering this thread into a more constructive direction than I could have; and to Yipe for offering what I take is a very reasonable answer: slow down the production. What's important to realize here is that the WH RPG line (both 40K and fantasy) doesn't need to slow down in its entirety. All we need are consolidated Core Rulebooks. That's what the line badly needs, and that's a need FFG recognized, otherwise they would not have issued the Guides in the first place.

I think mistakes (both design wise and editorial) about rules is a lot more forgiving in a supplement covering an optional area of the game than in a core rules book. If the disease and insanity rules in the two big Box supplements had some issues, that would be comparatively less of an issue than if the core rules reference is plagued by errors. Then again, there's plenty of product where the rules elements take a back seat anyway - published adventures or, if FFG gets round to that, campaign world background material. So there's enough of product to go round where FFG need not slow down.

I would also recommend FFG to focus more on what they are good at - and that is decidedly not the expansion in the rules segment ("crunch") but in terms of flavour and theme ("fluff"). This post by Adam France dating a year ago, www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp (post 23 on that page), is a very good summary about the 40K RPG lines* - FFG focuses on rules rather than background material, when they are both clearly better in the latter area (something oh so true about all their boardgames) and when their fans clearly want them to focus on that latter area. Witness the current call from the Fantasy Roleplay crowd for a setting book. That's something where FFG could show its real strength, would not need to slow down production, and could appease the fanbase.

*Again, I'd like to point out the historical dimension of the problem. Nothing said in this thread is really new, if you paid attention to the fanbase reactions to FFG in the 40K area.

skolo said:

Love the card and the art. looking forward to the other cards you are planning. As we are creating a massive adventure for the next Liber fanatica, updated and better art on the cards will go a long way, for this otherwise excellent SE program.

ps: where can I download the newest additions? And more importantly your cards will not have a conflict of interests as the first warhammer SE cards had?

keep up the excellent work.

Pedro Lunaris said:

It will all be revealed in the next issue of Liber Fanatica, stay tuned and you wont be dissapointed

Good gaming

Seriously guys? Quitting over a few misprints? Burn FFG to the ground because they missed a few cards? Put their children on pikes outside their company just because the recharge value of x card is printed wrong? I don't get where all this anger is coming from. I mean, every game, every one I have ever played had giant, glaring, editing wholes in them. Ever played a game printed by GW. Did you try DND 3rd. Have you ever tried to play a White Wolf game? Have you ever read a published novel? A school text book? There are errors all over those as well! This is the nature of the RPG beast. Of the writing beast. So I really don't understand why we need a four page thread bitching the FFG sucks...I mean, everything I've ever paid money for typically has some flaws to it. Especially in the entertainment fields of the world.

I really don't know what else to say. Other than that I am sure actual component fixes, such as the cards, we will eventually receive in form of a PDF, as they have done it in the past with Rapid Fire and Double Strike. Just be patient.

In my opinion, the Players guide is mostly clear about all the major rules. There are some bits when it comes to the career that are off, but the FAQ addresses it. Plus, if you play with components you do have the card to double check it against. I don't at all consider it a waste of money. The rules on First Aid versus care and the rest made perfect sense to me. As First Aid is called...first aid, I never thought it would apply to the Magic or any other form of care. I also disagree that the player's guide has only reprinted information in it. There is new stuff in there...sure nothing monumental, but there's enough bits it was worth purchasing it for me. But this is a recreation for me, one I happen to enjoy, so who cares. Also, if you are upset about buying it, FFG made it pretty clear there was nothing really "new" in it. So I don't see how you can possibly feel short-changed.

I seriously don't understand what all this rage about some misprints are. These things happen...get over it?

Happy Gaming,

Commoner

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