My group is getting ready to kick off a new DW campaign and after getting their grubby little hands on Rites of Battle all of the players are itching to run a dreadnaught. Since they will all be at Rank one this is obviously not going to fly, but could be turned into an interesting game plot for a first mission.

My thought is this, having the PC's run an adventure at the end of which is a dreadnaught that has been held in stasis by an enemy. The details are not important as what I intend to do is run the dreadnaught as an NPC during missions specifically tailored to it. My questions for the group are:

1. Has anyone ran a dreadnaught in a game before? Was it as insanely powerfull as the rules make it appear?

2. Is this thing too unbalanced to even run as an NPC?

Comments?

Greg

I personally would avoid doing so. There are few things as dull and annoying for a Player as the GM having an NPC who is far harder than any of the PCs (even if the NPC isn't a Mary Sue) 'along for the ride'. It's very contrived and tends to swing between being an annoyance to being a Deus Ex Machina when the players get in over their heads.

Siranui said:

Nail on the head here. Perhaps if the Dread was removed from statis, or turned back on, or whatever, but was severely disabled then the PCs would in a sense be escorting a giant sarcophagus with legs to the extraction point. That way you get your dread, maybe it fires a couple of supporting shots, but doesn't steal the spotlight. Though you're treading in the terrible escourt mission zone here, so be careful.

Charmander is thinking along lines similar to my own. The last thing I want is for the Kill Team to have a four ton babysitter. The dreadnaught itself is meant to be a plot tool more than an avalanche of firepower. I see him making "cameo" appearrances at pre-planned times to add a little excitement to the story, not as a regular.

Greg

gbierl said:

Some other seeds that popped into my head- use the dread to hold positions; let the KT go off and do the exciting parts of the mission and leave the dread behind to guard the back door or objective the team just captured. Have him provide 'cover fire' on a tough enemy (tough enough to not be killed outright by the dread, hah ) to allow the KT to manuver into a position to actually defeat said enemy. Have the big bugger relive the team as they're grinding through hordes, let him take the booring part to un-pin the KT so they can go on.

I think you could also use the guy to help illustrate the importance of certain missions- if they're deploying a dreadnaught, this must be the big time kind of idea.

As has been said, I think it's doable if the Dreadie is rescued but severely damaged in some way. You could then create a running chase/firefight through various hazards as the players try to get the Dreadnought to an extraction zone, having to stop along the way at cinematic moments to make on-the-spot 'repairs', like having one or two of the KT trying to keep him running while the others form a shield to guard their 'honoured brother'.

Could be tons of fun if done right.

Have all the players eventually play Dreadnoughts, though? I dunno.. I think that would be harder/less fun than running an all-Drow campaign!

One thing that is mentioned in RoB is that multiple players could play a single Dreadnought character, in addition to having their normal (and one new) character. For missions that need the Dreadie, players agree that one of them will play him. And when the mission doesn't require the Dreadie, hey have their normal characters.

Dreadnoughts are exceptionally cool icons of the 40K universe, but present some massive challenges to both GMs and players.

in my 2nd team i have dreadnought, played by one of players not npc. One great difference is that my team is on higher levels (ranks, 5, 5, 6, 8, 8) so walking coffin isnt that powerful. And dread isnt babysiter for rest of team, its completely otherwise. When players are on 1st rank drednought is like god compared to players, and mixing raw "conscripts" marines with "elite" dreadnought isnt good idea in my book. Dread is usefull on ranks 5+ not before.

korvass said:

Have all the players eventually play Dreadnoughts, though? I dunno.. I think that would be harder/less fun than running an all-Drow campaign!

I think it could be a blast, at least for a short term game. It would be especially funny as they all take turns forgetting crucial Int and Fel skills. I'd be like geriatric mecha on a rampage!

Remember that Dreadnoughts are heroes among the space marines and are dealt with much reverence. Dreadnoughts have usually thousands of years of experience. If you compare this to a rank 1 marines there is a huge difference. In fact they as young pups should listen to the old marine.

If you really want to include the dreadnought and have the players 'use' him. Give him requisition points (like the assets in RoB). He can then be used for a specific task. The dreadnought may come because he feels he has a nobligation to the young boys for rescuing him, but he may also be busy elsewhere.

Lots of good stuff here, both pro and con. I would like to point out one thing though. Deathwatch marrines are not by any means "young pups". While they may be new to the tactics and procedures of the Deathwatch, they are still experienced members of their chapters who have fought many battles and earned the requisite respect that had them seconded to the Deathwatch to begin with. These marines are definately not nubes.

As for the dreadnought question I think I will try to integrate a rescue mission as an early scenario for my players wherein they will recover the badly damaged dread from some enemy or other and return him to his rightful place in the Deathwatch. Subsequently he may appear in scenarios from time to time as an NPC or a one mission character for a player. The players actually salivate at the thought of running this thing.

Now I need to figure out the storyline as to who captured the dreadnought and how. Hmmmmmmm.........

gbierl said:

They sure don't feel like veterans. If I play a veteran Imperial Guard - like a starting Storm Trooper from Ascension, I'm WAY more rounded with both skills and talents than a starting Deathwatch Marine. The only place the Deathwatch Marine has an edge is in raw Characterisitics (and of course, implants and wargear). To me, this is OK if the Deathwatch Marine is fairly fresh into SM killiness, but otherwise it just sort of fails.

boruta666 said:

Not played it but if my Rifts RPG experience is worth anything here, the combat experience merely changes - the GM needs to create enemies with a number of heavy weapons. The main task for the KT then isn't to wipe out the enemy together with the Dreadnought. The main task is to remove all the heavy weapons before the dreadnought gets hurt. Once that is accomplished sensible enemies will flee, unsensible ones exterminated.

Alex

I would have to agree that in terms of skills and talents Rank One DW characters don't really feel like veteran marines. But to increase these would lead to a character that is entirely over the top for Rank One. I think a partial fix for this can be attained by spending time with the creation of the character background. The GM and player can put their heads together in the creation a mutually suitable background that can not only add flavor and detail to the character but also the GM can "tweak" attributes, stats and abilities to showcase the experiences gained.

Concur.

Rank 1 is pretty green, really. I completely understand why though: It would suck to generate an awesome character who then has little scope for improvement. It'd also such to be thrown in at the deep end and have a very mechanically complex character at Rank 1.

Just took a look at the stats.

Well yes Dreads are insane powerfull for "younger" Marines. Point is Dreads have one distinct weakness: they are only good in a field of battle when no one can flank him with heavy weapons. Darn a singel Renegade Trooper with some krag Missiles can proof extremly devastating. So Escorting is a good option, and the awe the Drad inspires at normal fights can give a push. But use the major drawbacks, its relativly slow, sometimes they forget simply who they are. They need a clear path to move whats relativly easy obstacles for a Battel Brother might impossible to pass for a dread. So they must re-route their way. So after the first: "Yeah!" an Ambush with a singel Rocket bring them back.

At least with my players this usually works extremly fine. With all it's power extrapolate the weakness of a Draednaught. Should be interesting how your players solve this.

Akil said:

That krak missile could have just as easily killed one of the non-Dread SMs.