Well, just a bit over two years from the Normandy Expansion to the Eastern Front.

Will this be the end of the line for ToI as far as expansions, or will they soldier on and bring us a Pacific Expansion?

I'm kinda thinking we may see a Scenario Book Volume II next, now that we have the Russians in our hot little hands (or soon will have).

Possibly now would be a good time to release another map expansion, one with desert on one side, and winter on the other. Or two map expansions, a desert one and a winter one.

Little booster packs with little unpainted, or better yet, painted tanks?!

I'm thinking the foundation is now laid for ToI; what kinda house will FFG build for one of the best wargames around?

I only hope I live to see it.

I hope you are right on all of this! Two years to pacific would be fine if they indeed also release another book and some map expansions. Indeed desert and snow are what we need now. Some additional vehicles for the eastern front would be great too! (T70, Elephant, KV85, IS2, T34/85, Panzer III L, Stug d, etc.)

After having seen The Pacific miniseries, I am not sure how to model this sort of very confused combat at mostly extremely close ranges...

Furthermore, up to now, armies in ToI are comparatively similar in performance. The Japanese army seems to have been very different though. Less individual firepower and somewhat greater stamina. Indoctrination and training seem to have been different.

Of course its a challenge, all great things are. Put good minds to the task & we'll have another whopper of an expansion! Pacific I think would be much more intricate w/ alot of twists & turns, but thats what would make it fun, but only w/ alot of realism mixed in for those of us that like it more "Like it really was". Happy gaming

KlausFritsch said:

I don't know about the Japanese having greater stamina...it was a different kind of war than what was seen in europe for the most part, yes. Different kind of upbringing with the Japanese troops as well, but when it comes right down to it, the Allied troops proved beyond a doubt to be every bit as tough and determined as the Japanese. In many cases, the Japanese doctrine of "attack" proved to be a liability and a huge advantage for the Allied forces, notably on Guadalcanal.

Like in all of the Armies in WWII, there were brilliant commanders on all sides who performed spectacularly and achieved great victories, and there were others who met with devastating defeats.

The Pacific seemed to be more of a fight to the end, take no prisoners type of struggle. The Japanese Army had it's own doctrine, to be sure, but once the Allies began to gain a little combat experience, they were every bit the equal of the Japanese soldiers. The vast expanse of the Pacific, the remote locations of the battlefields, and the close quarter nature of the fighting are indeed unique to that theater of war.

However, the Pacific war was decided in the end, as it was in europe, by the superior industrial output of the Allies. The individual bravery of any of the soldiers was not enough to overcome industrial might. Stamina, indoctrination, training; all of that would not stand up to the massive output of men and material the United States was able to produce and bring to bear against the Japanese.

I think any Japanese forces introduced into the game should function pretty much the same as the units we have now. Where the real difference in Japanese doctrine could be brought to light in ToI would be in the card decks. Card decks specifically intended for use by Japanese forces would be the best way, IMHO, to show the different fighting tactics and characteristics of the Japanese Army, in the Pacific in WWII.

Just my .02

KlausFritsch said:

The point you mention regarding fighting at extremely close ranging is quite easy to mimic: just add in lots of jungle and other blocking terrain and because of that armies won't see each other, hence won't be able to attack each other unless they're already very close.

As Kaufstick said, cards can take care of the rest. Just some ideas, not sure if they'd all work, but it'll give you an idea:

* Frequent use of the card "No surrender" (Your squads cannot be routed; they can be pinned or disrupted. This means they cannot be eliminated by suppressive fire).

* Banzai charge: If not stopped by an op fire attack, your infantry units hit on 3+ when making an assault. If they are stopped by an op fire attack, roll a die. On a result of 4+ immediately remove a Japanese figure of the owner's choice in addition to the standard effect (pinned or disrupted etc.)

This would both refelect the potential lethality of a banzai charge as well as the extreme risk they brought with them to the japanese attackers.

* Frequent use of camouflage tokens.

* Some kind of cave movement system.

* Frequent use of sniper cards.

* etc.

Kingtiger said:

Banzai sounds good, I will try that as soon as I have painted enough Japanese infantry.

The Pacific definitely needs caves and underground fortifications, but I have no idea how to model those yet.

One could go with a second map showing the underground structure, but that would use up too much table space, I think.

KlausFritsch said:

Was thinking of banzai some more. When an op fire attack is made using NORMAL fire, the effect should be that if at least one hit is scored (when the Japanese have declared an assault) an additional hit is scored automatically (again, when unsuccessful, the assault is carried out hitting at 3+).

As for caves I'd go with something very similar to the cave rules of memoir 44: At a movement cost of four a fresh squad may move from one cave hex on the board to any other. A unit must start its move on a cave hex. (imagine that the squad has been located and it's thought to be in that position. However, it's long since moved from there using cave movement).

When I think pacific front I think of fanatic japanesse infanteri. Modeling them somehow is a must. A bonus of some kind regarding supprsive fire seems appropriate.

There are also lots of fun things you could do with the jungle terrain. It can be extremly slow, full of hazzards etc. For example, any jungle trait could have a small probability to injure any infanteri when entering the hex. For example: at a roll of 6 on one die, take one cassulty. Could be impossible for vehicles to drive in, thus making roads could be extremly important as it would be impossible to drive in the other tittles.

I also would enjoy to see AT guns firing at the Higgis boats, BEFORE the beach-landings

But back to the russians, one rule I feel is missing is rules for untrained and poorly equiped infanteri? How about a negative spezilisations?

-Millits: half-firepower.! If not in a hex with an offiser, you gain no cover from suppressive fire. Cannot combine fire. Cannot operate equipment. No radio: cannot be used to spot for mortars.

Other ides

-Forzen: your menn are freezing, and have reduced speed. Infanteri gain -2 movement!

-Deseased: At the beginning of each turn (phase(?)) roll a die. At 4,5 or 6 place a pinned token on this unit. If already pinned, place a disrupted token...

For the early war, cavalery, and guns towed by horses!

A way of representing poorly trained Infantry is by using the operations cards such as Shatted Morale, Massive confusion and Shaken defenders. They deal with no combine fire, minuses to cover on suppressive attacks and recovering from being pinned. Plus who knows what operation cards wee will see with the expansion.

Aussie_Digger said:

Exactly. I'm also confident that both existing cards and new ones will be more than able to represent militia/ recruits.

As for the "frozen" idea, -I'd call it frostbite- it could also be on an operations and/or tactics card: At the start of each action phase, roll a die for each of your infantry units. On a roll of 1 immediately remove a figure of your choice from that squad (frostbite) (should affect the germans especially as they had a severe lack of winter clothing and their helmets even seemed to make things worse).

Something similar could be done for vehicles: mechanical problems: At the start of each action phase, roll a die. On a die roll of 5-6, the vehicle cannot perform any action this round. Fatigue it immediately.

SSeparate cards could be made that would make only moving or firing impossible etc.

Hope FFG came up with similar ideas!

Kingtiger said:

Alternatively, rather than scoring an automatic additional hit, the attacker could be allowed to re-roll a miss (or all rolls of 1 or any variation, depending on how strong you want this to be). Guess personally, I'd go for all rolls of 1, to make it a really hard decision for the Japanese.

As for suppresive fire, rather than inflicting a casualty, to saty more in tune with the existing rules, I'd say apply an additional hit. So pinned would be disrupted, disrupted would be routed. (Then again, most of the time, the Japanese should be immune to being routed, I guess...). So routed would stay disrupted in those cases.

Grand Stone said:

You could do that too, with the squad tokens. I mean, they have the expert squad tokens in this expansion, so it should be no problem making just the opposite. You could even use the Alpha or Bravo squad tokens to represent whatever you want. Those squad tokens are kinda generic looking IMHO.