FFG has finally put up a brief preview of Frozen Wastes with product contents here on their very own site.

It comes with a new board overlay, 110 new cards, six new hero figures, and "winter survival gear." All for $39.95. And it's "Coming Soon!"

Maybe you've learned this already from other sources, but now it's officially here at FFG. Thank you, FFG!

Yeah, I saw this yesterday! Man, it's about time lol. I can't wait. Maybe it's just the weather right now, but I am actually really excited for this expansion.

The background fluff piece posted today is a nifty piece as well, overlooking the strange detail of how the ancient alien astronaut Arshan went insane and was also able to infect his mechanical devices with insanity as well.

Halfing eskimoes, intelligent dogs, plundering not-Vikings, and ancient machines bent on destruction with the help of a nasty ice wyrm: all good stuff. Much better than Sands Of Al-Kalim and the borrowed background of Arabian Nights used for its setting.

Other than the slightly sci-fi motif a la wizardry, I would think the fluff (at least the big picture) is quite similar to SoAK: the heroes aim to defeat the immortals instead of joining them in legend.

That fluff just turned me off from this expansion. Yet ANOTHER fantasy setting degenerating into sci-fi. At first I thought it was just some nonsense to explain the world, but sounds like people playing this expansion will be fighting... machines from outer space. The whole thing sounds like an after-thought fan fiction that could even be bothered to disguise its blatant rip-off of history and names. It pains me to say it, especially after all that waiting and general lack of information, but pass.

EDIT: I just hope this doesn't have some bearing on Descent somewhere down the road. The two games tragically share the same world.

bitva said:

Yeah, I definitely still want this set, but the sci fi robots from space stuff is a bit out of place. It will still be nice to have a snow map and blizzard rules, etc. I guess we can use the expansion for just that stuff and use one of the many other story decks with it if it turns out to be really bad.

I suppose with all the Runebound decks that exist, you could just weed out the aliens and robots from the adventure decks and replace them with other cards, or maybe even leave them out and do nothing. Sure, forest monsters won't make sense in "Isheim", but neither do aliens and robots.

I thought about it for a while, and have come to the conclusion that all the waiting and delay and lack of information about this expansion stems from a mid-design design decision to make Runebound into a sci-fi game. Why decide to make this switch in the middle of developement? Simple; Talisman acquisition. FFG is going to make Runebound into "Sci-fi Talisman" so they won't have two competing games. They didn't give the change to Talisman due to its legacy as a fantasy game, and Talisman fans will probably be less tolerant of such an arbitrary shift. What do you think? Does this explain this move, and the reason why FW has been so frustratingly long to be released and the general concealment of information regarding it?

Would also like to hear people's memories of the expansion from the Gencon demo and such.

Conspiracy theory aside, I think sci-fi/fantasy theme has merit...if done right

...and as long as it's not taking place in the world of Runebound...err Terrinoth!

Heh.

I guess you are completely ignoring the Timescape Talisman expansion. You could even play as a Space Marine.

I think your concerns would be justified if it was dripping with sci-fi elements.

Instead, its all part of the ancient history of this area of the world. Its not like a space ship crashed there yesterday. Instead, these are millenia old immortals and their ancient constructs. I guess it all depends on how they are depicted on the cards. They sound more scratch built from the parts of the ship, as opposed to finely engineered sleek futuristic robots.

Our group playtested Frozen Wastes and weren't disappointed.

Gargamel said:

Sci-fi is sci-fi. It doesn't matter when in some made-up history the elements occur. Fact is, I'd still be fighting alien robots if I were getting this expansion.

Timescape is not an expansion of the current Talisman, and was a lapse during whatever edition it came out for. Talisman remained a fantasy game after that. More importantly, I simply don't care; I'm not a Talisman player.

bitva said:

Except you won't know the context by which they are being portrayed since you won't be picking up this expansion? Being closed minded only denies you the opportunity for some fun. Previously you had said that 85% of all fantasy has sci-fi added to it eventually, so its safe to assume you are only allowing yourself to enjoy 15% of all fantasy genres out there?

And you are basing all this off of one expansion's fluff. What if FFG eventually releases something that indicates that humans were originally from Earth and crash landed their ship on this planet and have been living here for thousands of years, thus making them aliens from another world and establishing that you've been playing sci-fi Runebound from day 1. Is that going to make you sell your sci-fi game completely?

bitva said:

It was a lapse? Me and my buds played 2nd edition Talisman with every expansion and didn't bat an eye when we got sent to the Timescape to pick up our chain swords.

And if you don't care, then why bring it up as an example in the first place?

If I lived in a gaming vacuum where Runebound was my only option for gaming, maybe I'd agree with you, but I have plenty of other options that are just as good and worthy of my time. Skipping out on Runebound when it loses the flavor that attracted me to the game in the first place is not something I have to think twice about. I won't be missing out on anything.

I'm very fortunate to have standards in place that allow me to spend time only on the best 15% of something than on 100% of whatever happens to exist. If you read the fluff again, it's pretty apparent that you will be encountering ridiculous alien robots in-game. Probably as red challenges. If I'm wrong and it's just some stupid, poorly thought-out and written fluff, great, I may pick this up down the road. But it seems pretty clear that it's not just fluff, it's telling you what you're doing in the game.

If these alien machines can't be too intelligent or evolved: if they were, they would have moved to a warmer climate as soon as they were set free { I say as I wait for the temperature where I'm at to drop below zero for the next five days...]

I should hope FFG would confine the Frozen Wastes alien stuff to the continent FW is set in, north of Terrinoth. A sci-fi version of RB would be great in my opinion, but not if done by melding it into the current RB world.

I'm also thinking that Ronan would have trouble bonding with a machine, given he has enough trouble with furry woodland creatures and the females of his own species.

I have to admit, I was a little taken aback when I began reading the story background for this expansion. As soon as I saw the worlds "alien", "spaceship" and "machines" I was a bit disappointed. I had hoped this would be all "Vikingesque" in it's flavor. You know, raiding barbarians, frost giants, trolls, dwarves, longships, bloody battles in the snow, vindictive gods and all that. **sigh** What the heck were these guys thinking? I guess I'll have to check out some revues on this before I buy. I was planning on ordering this the day it became available, now I think I'll adapt a "wait and see" attitude. Crap.

I am not put off by the "sci fil " allusions- I imagine the "robots" as some of you are saying will be more akin to the Golden Army automatons from Hellboy II rather than electronic, computerized beings. I could be wrong, but if that is what the designers have in mind I think it will be pretty cool.

I'm not really concerned about the sci-fi elements. I'd prefer they be kept out of Runebound (there are lots of ways to do a fantasy ice world) but I'm OK as long as it's not OTT.

What I'd like to know is why there's a club symbol on the previewed cards from today. Is that a graphics error that was supposed to be the Fatigue drop or is it something new? And if it is new, why are they using standard playing card symbols?

Yep, the club is odd. Probably they just haven't made the icon for frost counters, yet.

A couple other new items from the posted cards: What's Forage? And what are those little round icons in the upper left of each of the illustrations?

Without the advantage of any pre-knowledge about FW, I would guess the clubs icon is for a stat similar to stamina, only in this case an ability to withstand cold. Either the new characters introduced in the expansion have an additional stat, and/or the existing characters count their stamina stat as being equal to their "cold endurance" stat.

A couple of the rewards on the furry animal cards shows the ability to thwart the effects of a clubs icon with the animal's pelt, so my thought would seem to be reasonable.

As for forage, perhaps it is a type of market step taken when you're out in the middle of the frozen wastes. This would be after your bantha has keeled over from the cold and you've split it open with your light saber to crawl inside its carcass to stay warm -- wait, that's the ice world of Hoth in Star Wars...

Ok, after seeing the preview cards I'll admit that I'm much encouraged. It all looks like pretty standard Runebound fare, and that's a good thing!

Torbal said:

You're thinking Tauntauns. Banthas are what Tusken Raiders ride on Tatooine.

Man, I'm dissapointed. Where are my promised space robots?!?!? For turning Runebound into a sci-fi game, they sure made those encounters pretty lame. Couldn't they have at least slapped a laser beam onto the polar bear or something? Sheesh. Total missed opportunity.

I think it is interesting that they developed such a detailed background story for this expansion; this is something that was missing from the original Runebound (there was NO back story). I'm sure there will be a number of crazy alien robots/monsters given the background, despite the fact that the spoiled cards are still in the traditional fantasy realm.

My thoughts on the symbols on the cards: I suspect the "club" symbol is some sort of "frost token". The more of these you accumulate, the more detrimental they will be. I HOPE that this symbol is just a place holder as it makes a pretty lame frost symbol...especially since it is often near a "heart". Also, I wonder about the symbols in the upper left of the cards as well...another attempt to classify monster types (as they did in Midnight, but more like the three classes in Descent)?

Still, I am very excited about this expansion.

The original Runebound has A background story....that of the Rise of the Dragonlords (told by the cards themselves).

Mattr0polis said:

Yep, this is exactly what happens when you mix sci-fi with fantasy. Now I've mixed up my banthas with my tauntauns. Next I'll probably see the weasel attacking a stormtrooper with a stick and jumping on a speeder.