Since there are rules for all the other first founding chapters I feel that Sons of Khan deserve their rules for incorporation in Deathwatch games. Just started to think about their bonuses and chapter specific skills, but I am kinda stuck. I guess something around driving, especially concerning bikes. Hatred (Dark Eldar/Eldar) and something for extra melee prowess. As far as abilities go, +5Ag +5WP ? Solo mode ability around extra attack in melee or something like that. Don't know really what else. Any suggestions?

Definitely need "drive (ground vehicle)" and "talented (drive - ground vehicle)" as chapter advances.

Don't they have a good assault group as well? Maybe a choice between talented ground vehicles, talented skimmer, and talented pilot self?

I was thinking about this, and I would agree with the stats you got.

I'd give them +5 Agi and +5 WS or maybe +5 Per, and a Solo Mode ability that lets them charge farther and/or reduce or eliminate terrain-based movement penalties.

Bwuh? There's no official rules for all the other First Founding Chapters...

Salamanders, Raven Guard, and Iron Hands still need them too. Yes, there's unofficial ones in case you meant that, but not official yet.

Dulahan said:

Yes, I did mean that. At least they are represented in some form. White Scars have none. So, my intention is to at least cover them unofficially by some kind of rules.

Come to think of it, +5Ag, +5WS would be better. They are strongly assault themed chapter, so solo mode for some kind of ground covering is a good idea. Maybe early access to some sort of melee talents? What about chapter demeanour and primarch's curse? Restricted specialty: Devastator maybe?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to see what other people think. I will probably use Rites of Battle and chapter creation rules to get some inspiration. When I do have something more concrete, hopefully I will have less questions and more answers

Don't we also need (or at least want) rules for the first founding chapters that turned renegade?

What solo mode abilities would the World Eaters or Emperor's Children have or are Marks of Chaos enough?

Direach said:

+10 Agi? Or if they are Mongols +5 Agi, +5 T perhaps?

Alex

I've been working on this over the week. Not a big WS fan, though so I'm uncertain of demeanour and Curse. Psy and relic needs doing, too... Comments welcome, Copyright retained by author.

Statistics:
White Scars gain a +5 modifier to Agility and to Perception.

Chapter advances:
Acrobatics 500
Acrobatics +10 500
Acrobatics +20 500
Drive (any) 400
Drive (any) +10 400
Drive (any) +20 400
Wrangling 100
Wrangling +10 100
Wrangling +20 100
Assassin Strike 400
Hard Target 500
Hip shooting 500
Talented (Drive: ground vehicles) 400
Talented (Drive: skimmers) 400

Chapter abilities

Solo mode – Agile offense (active)
So long as he does not remain stationary, the White Scar if never affected by suppressive fire, nor triggers over-watch attacks. Difficult ground or other awkward terrain that might slow others typically is of no impedence to the character. In the worst case, any checks the GM might impose to deal with such obstacles gain a +20 modifier.

Improvement: At Rank 4 the character gains a 50% increase in speed while travelling on foot. At Rank 7 the characters mobility is such that he ignores all difficult terrain and obstacles such as boxes and barricades may be freely vaulted across without impedence.

Chapter attack pattern – Hit and run
Action: Free
Cost: 3
Sustained: No
When this ability is triggered, all eligible kill-team members in support range may immediately elect to join Squad Mode. Furthermore, they may freely move up to twice their Agility bonus in metres, freely disengaging from melee and moving without triggering over-watch fire and ignoring suppressive fire. They may make a single ranged or melee attack, either before or after the move. This ability only lasts one turn.

Chapter Defence Pattern – Evasive manoeuvres
Action: Half
Cost: 3
Sustained: Yes
While this ability in effect, all eligible members within support range are targeted by foes at -10 BS/WS, so long as they move 5m or more during their turn. Any vehicle driven by a character affected by the Pattern is also targeted with the same modifiers.
Improvement: At Rank 4, ranged fire aimed at those under the effects of this Pattern (and their vehicles) are treated as firing at 1 range category greater. If already at extreme range, the weapon may not target the Asartes.

Chapter trappings

Falchion
This may be selected to take the place of the standard combat knife. These curved swords are treated exactly as ceremonial swords used by other Chapters.

Talisman of fleet foot
When utilising Hard Target, the White Scar increases the penalties to hit him by 3%.

Yurt
The traditional domed tent of the nomadic people of Mundus Planus might seem to be of little use to a White Scar, but they are still seen amongst their camps, offering a reminder of the traditional ways of the tribes and spiritual solace. A White Scar who spends a night under the skies in his yurt gains an additional re-roll the following day.
10kg

I'd suggest a Primarch's Curse relating to pride: obsessing over grudges or perceived slights, to the point where evening the score is all the marine can think about. This isn't based on anything in the lore (as far as I know), just a general "proud warrior" vibe taken to the nth degree. Or, if you prefer... think of it as the Wrath of Khan.

I am thinking about buffing the charge more. Berserk Charge. Maybe also Brutal Charge trait bonuses on bikes as a new talent. Or Thunder Charge with Bikes.

Alex

Could do, but on the other hand, if the Wolves don't get any extra charge blag, I'm wary of dishing it out to the Scars. Especially given the number of talents/skills already given: 3 combat ones and two utility, 2 'useful' skills and one fluff one. That's already quite a few.

Good idea on the curse.

Nice work there Psyx. For relics I am thinking, and devising, a bow of some sort. Since Khan is portrayed, in Collected Visions at least, carrying one along with a quiver of arrows. He also has a falchion of some sort. I would give some sort of modified bike maybe for Scars. Better speed for sure.

One thing with the 'scars' as far as I can tell, they're more a Ranged combat chapter. Sure there was a champion doing the close combat thing - but so does every chapter. But they're more about mobility and striking where they want. and then getting away. Even Hunt for Voldorius seems to hold this up.

And if you really want to emulate the 'Mongol' aspect, then a BS bonus is a must - making great shots at rapid speeds. What's the driving skill again? I don't remember, but the stat tied to that is what I'd suggest for the second one.

Perhaps some sort of 'withdraw' squad mode ability to reflect ability to pull away after a melee attack. Perhaps allow them to take a full action move after a melee attack? Or half?

Defensive Squad. Maybe add some movement to represent fast withdrawals? Possibly with a defensive bonus if withdrawing? (a -10 to hit them while withdrawing? -20?)

Solo Mode - Maybe reducing penalties for moving and shooting?

Regardless, mobility should feature heavily. Hit hard and run. Lure the enemy into pursuit, rinse and repeat. (for the record, I'm a Mongolist RL, specializing in the Mongol Army, so the White Scars are a bit near and dear to me)

(LOL! And I notice that Psyx has come up with basically the same thing for the Squadmode stuff as I prepare to post this! Though I'd maintain BS instead of Per or Agi. And like Psyx's Solo mode too)

I'll have a ponder about relics. I'm a little wary of 'magic bikes' as they are a little niche and unsuitable for 80% of missions, so it would suck to have a relic choice to be useless most of the time.

Agility certainly earns its place as one of the stat-ups and really has to stay, as it's all about mobility and driving skills. Perception was the other that sprung to mind, although BS may be more suitable. I'm a little leery of giving WS/BS upgrades, as they are VERY good, but it may not be out of place here.

The more I read these ideas, the more conviced I become that the Storm Wardens are a Successor of the White Scars. The Storm Wardens just substituted their local culture (Scots-based) for that of the White Scars' Mongol-based theme and they adjusted to using heavier armoured vehicles over fast strike bikes and speeders.

To that end, I'd suggest +5 Agility and +2 Wounds for the White Scars and also give them the Lighting Strike Chapter Attack Pattern from the Storm Wardens.

Bow of the Great Hunt - Range 75m RoF S/-/- Dmg 1d10+X Pen - Clip 1 Reload Half Special: See below

Carried by only the greatest hunters and Khans, this bow is a testament of chapters most distinguished warriors and hunters. Often carried by most dedicated and greatest of hero's who proved themselves in long servitude to his chapter or Deathwatch.

Depending on circumstances battle brother of White Scars that has this relic in his possession may require specialist ammunition for this weapon. As such there are several available:

Adamantium Tip Arrows - made for killing highly armored targets. Add 6 to damage and 6 to penetration. Adds Accurate quality to the attacks.

Toxic Arrows - made for killing slightly less armored but highly dangerous foes. Add 4 to damage and 2 to penetration. Adds Toxic (and Felling maybe?) quality to attacks.

Explosive Arrows - made for killing multiple foes in a blood and gore fest. Damage becomes 2d10 with 3 penetration and explosive attack. Adds Blast (2) to the attacks.

Psi-Bane Arrows - made especially for killing rogue psykers and warp dabblers. Add the amount of damage and penetration equal to psykers psi rating (for example: Damage dealt to a psyker with a rank 5 will be 1d10+5 with Pen 5). Additionaly, if a such creature is wounded it may not push its Psychic Strength. Also, creatures with Warp Instability must immediately make a Willpower Test to check for disruption as described in the Trait.

This is alpha version of Relic. All comments, critique and advices are welcome.

HappyDaze said:

They also have at least one successor with the Storm Name already, the Storm Lords.

Direach said:

All White Scars bear a grudge against Dark Eldar

"The Lost Kin

According to the writing of the Great Khan of Quan Zhou, the White Scars learned upon their return to Mundus Planus that their homeworld had been the target of numerous Dark Eldar raids. Jaghatai swore many oaths against the Dark Eldar and fought them in many battles. It was during the battle of Corusil V that he and his first brotherhood followed a mighty Dark Eldar lord through a gate into the webway, vanishing forever.

To this day the White Scars hold a great hate for these aliens."

Source: wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/White_Scars

Zenoth16 said:

Please allow me brief nudge at those who I am arguing with in the Imperial Fists thread:
"Well, good Space Marines all hate Dark Eldar, it's nothing special. There is nothing in the latest Codex that says the White Scars have Preferred Enemy(DE) either." (I'm just playing devil's advocate here, of course.)

Now back to programme, sorry for the interruption.

Alex

Yes.

Nothing childish about that.

Cardinal Nicodemus said:

Requisition cost? The base damage is huge (1d10+16 pen 6, accurate) in the hands of the average marine, so the cost should reflect that.

Blood Pact said:

That's right, bloodpact, nothing childish about that. It was making a good use of an opportunity to demonstrate that a certain argument leveled in the other thread was not convincing. And got followed up by another post of yours getting personal. You know, if someone's own behaviour isn't exactly the epitome of maturity, they'd better not go around calling other people childish.

I suggest you end it at this point within this thread or you'll end up derailing it. Anything you have to say to me, you can state in the Imperial Fists thread.

Alex

Personally, I'd call them very different things. There's a difference between types of combat, that even in the books are pre-empted and by modern things like siegeworks and bolters until overrun and which I still maintain all Space Marines hold in almost the same degree (all have Combat Cages to train)... and hatred of a certain enemy that has been fought more than most things for 10,000 years. That being said, I'm not sure they need Hatred for Dark Eldar anyways, though it depends. The Crimson Fists get it for Orks, as they've been the main enemy for generations. So very hard to say.