As most Deathwatch players know, when you are a melee guy without a lot of reptuation, your choice of weapons is.....well limited would be a kind word.

Enter the Bulkhead Shears in rites of battle. A two handed weapon that...with a decent strength score, I can deal 4d10 +13 Pen 6 damage.

Suddenly I've gone from a melee guy who was happy if he was doing 1/2 the damage of a heavy bolter marine....to suddenly unleashing damage that even the heavy bolter might envy.

The drawback is that its unweildy which is a drawback, but I think the sheer increase in damage (and chances for righteous fury) more than make up of it.

I was curious what people thought of this weapon, because it seems so much stronger than the standard chainsword. Is it overpowered....or is it simply balancing the books for melee vs ranged combat?

Unbelievable that these are easier to Parry with than a Power Fist or Thunder Hammer...

From the description, this seems like much less of a weapon than a tool that can be used as a weapon, and so I'd say its stats seem wildly out of line.

HappyDaze said:

Actually both this and the breaching augur are "Unwieldy" which means you can't parry with them at all.

As for the damage think of it this way: A. they still don't do have that much impact against a horde (unless you get lots of critical successes) and B. imagine a fireman ramming their "jaws of life" pneumatic tool into your chest then powering the jaws open - it would do some SERIOUS damage to you but it would take all their effort to do so (hence Unwieldy, needs a harness etc..).

so basically, no, i don't think these rules are out by much, if anything at all.

sgtgrarm said:

Sorry. I misread it to be Unbalanced rather than Unwieldy.

As for the fireman example - that's a perfect comparison as to why this should have something like a "Clumsy" trait to represent how difficult it should be to actually employ this thing as a weapon against a target that's actively trying to defend itself.

Personally, I'm limiting both the shears and the breaching auger to Techmarines only and only as a replacement upgrade to their servo arm. I really dislike the idea of an assault marine (or any marine) running around with these from a fluff perspective. A Techmarine makes much more sense to me.

Yup: These are prime 'tech marine only' material. They're primarily tools, not weapons. I think a -10 or more to hit is also fair enough.

I really can't see these used to make multiple attacks with Swift/Lighting Attack. The mechanism would seem to require a bit more time to insert, activate, and separate compared to more conventional melee weapons.

In my game, I've ruled that Str Bonus doesn't apply to these or the Breaching Auger, since the damage comes from the machine.

I'd agree to limiting it, with two other exceptions. One is mounting the Auger as a bionic hand, which the rules state. The fact that you don't have a second hand would be loss enough. And after that, I'd let an Imperial Fist req it,and allow them only to use it as a weapon, but I don't know how exactly to limit it proper for an IF assault marine

cis013 said:

Funny that was my thought also in another thread. Another thing that I consider difficult is attacking after a charge with a bulkhead shear properly. This weapon is probably not made for a running attack.

Alex

So it's like using the Jaws of Life as a weapon? Okay, Ghazkull, hold still a minute, I'll have you out of that MegaArmor in a jiffy...

Not a weapon unless you bash someone over the head with it in my opinion.

As a tool, against structure with a bit of time, it will do the damage it's supposed to.

I read this weapon entry, and I knew immediately, I wanted to kick some foul xenos into the dirt, preferably a sentient one, and use these to bisect their torso, probably just under the ribcage. I hadn't thought of them as a true weapon, but a most useful application of a tool in my possession. In addition, I can think of no better way to get a filthy Tau out of it's heretical perversion of our Holy Terminator suits.

Stalker0 said:

It doesn't seem balanced, to me. Most of the two handers are unwieldy as well, so...this one just does 2d10 bonus damage? Seems fishy.

As for doing 1/2 the damage of the devestator, everyone does half the damage of the dev, at least overall, that's just the nature of the beast

HappyDaze said:

This was my first thought when I heard about this. It really feels like an 'improvised weapon' to me. Seems like removing that ability, charge, and potentially the 'no strength bonus' are reasonable modifications, at least from a logic perception. Give it to a techmarine for him to carry into a mission where he has to...breach bulkheads, and you've got a cool scene with an improvised weapon and some bad guy with a crushed head, but to have it work like a sword...

Following this chain of thought though, wouldn't it mean that the techie's servo arm is technically an "improvised weapon" too?

sgtgrarm said:

I would agree with that, it's for being a mechanic. But that said handy if you wanted to play cards and open a cask of wulfmead at the same time. My kind of improvised weapon.

sgtgrarm said:

It would be except for the fact it is linked directly into their nervous system and becomes another arm as far as the user is concerned.

ItsUncertainWho said:

Despite its direct connection to the user by some means, It is a big lifting arm, it is not designed as a weapon. So I agree with Mr Grarm.
However this is still off topic. I would also not allow battle brothers to lower themselves by using bulkhead shears for combat, unless in dire emergency.

Although hopefully not to the point where they forget and try to pick their nose with a breaching auger...

ItsUncertainWho said:

The Breaching Augur can be added as a cybernetic limb so what about this one?

This just came up in my new DW campaign...this was my solution. I left the Shears with the errata stats (we use errata stats).

Breaching Augur (18 -)
MELEE 2d10†E, Pen 15, Tearing, Unwieldy, Power Field, 28kg
A Breaching Augur 's bulk makes it impossible to effectively use any weapon, shield or equipment with the hand it replaces. A Space Marine already doubles his Strength Bonus from his Unnatural Strength Trait. Therefore, the Breaching Augur increases the multiplier by one, tripling the Space Marine’s Strength Bonus) It replaces the normal bionic hand and glove on Astartes power armour, and imposes the same weapon restrictions and manual dexterity penalties as a lightning claw.

It is cheaper but you have to use it in place of a hand. It is detachable but again you don't have a hand unless you requisition one and have a tech marine swap it out for you. This also imposes manual dexterity penalties on everything you do that requires two hands.

GM NOTE: It is unwieldy meaning it cannot be used to parry. It is tearing but you, for 2d10, roll only 3d10 and take the top two. Like a Power Fist it has no inherent + to damage but doubles the SB of the user - in the case of a marine this means his SB is x3 not x2. I more than doubled its PEN rating to showcase its use against inanimate objects and vehicles. However it is a tool primarily and not a weapon so only ONE melee attack may be made with the augur per round whether one has swift and lightning attack or two weapon wielder. Hope you like what resulted.

After having a player in my game come to the same conclusion about the Augur, I've house ruled it that the Shears and Augur only count as an unwieldy Chainsword against normal opponents. Against vehichles, bunkers and other inanimate objects, they use the full stats. Seems to work pretty well.

As how I see it, the sheer amount of damage over a normal weapon is because its meant to deal with armour/an obstacle. With the advent of vehicle rules, that's possibly why plasma and melta weapons were also upgraded.

This is possibly to punch through ceramite or tougher armour. I can see the damage that it can cause structurally to an inanimate wall/obstacle, what I do not see it how it is to be applied.

As I compare it to a power tool, a drill takes time and effort to bore a hole. Or a Jackhammer used for roadworks may require some effort to effectively break a hole into a material.

I might suggest a set up cost to power up the tool, followed by an extended action depending on material to be breached? Maybe a skill test with a minimum number of DOS to use deal the full damage to a structure? Back to my example, the application of said drill requires more than just a WS or test.

Combat wise I'd figure it maybe an improvised weapon like where you use the butt of a rifle to deal impact damage to an enemy. Any one with similar ideas on this?