I posted this in DW originally, but then it acured to me that if anyone knows there ships its the RT guys. I was wondering about how Spacemarine Ships were run, I got some feed back in DW forum about spacewolfs use failed recruits to help man them, I was thinking though that you would really need to be dedicated to such things as stellar navigation, and knowledge of the warp. Does the Imperial Navy run them for the Chapter, and doing so are they considered part of the chapter cult? Are there just some special marines out there that dedicate themselfs to this task? Who all would be on a Space Marine Ship? Any input is helpfull, thanks.

According to some BL novels, Space marine ships are crewed by chapter serfs with a command crew of Space Marines.

Space marines chapter should also have agreements with navigator houses, the adeptus astra telepatica and mechanicus for the specialized work. Librarians and techmarines could probably do some of the job, but there isn't enough of them to man whole ships. Space marines chapter probably own a very small number of warp capable ships (like 1 battleship and 2 or 3 strike cruiser) and use the Imperial navy, or, why not, rogue trader ships, when operating on a small scale.

Space Marines have ships that are analogous to the sword, firestorm and cobra as well (the nova, gladius and hunter frigates, the Thunder's Word is likely one of these). Some chapters (the ultras for certain as it's documented in the bfg rules) have at minimum 2 battle barges (2 different patterns on top of that) , and Azrael shows up to the siege of Vraks with a Battlebarge and 4 strike cruisers with only half of the dark angels chapter in tow. Any Fleet based Chapter (Imperial Fists, Black Templars, etc) will have a significant number of ships. If I remember right, a BB will carry 3 companies comfortably, and a strike cruiser 1. Though, keep in mind, even a 'significant' number of ships for a space marine chapter is a small number compaired to an Imperial Navy battle group in an important sector.

Codex & BFG say ships are crewed by chapter serfs & servitors, with space marine command crew (not just bl novels for those who don't like BL as cannon), with deals worked out with Navigator houses and astropaths for those particular services (though there's no mention of mechanicus support strangely, I suppose 1 techmarine can control a host of servitors to perform proper maintenance rituals on the smaller ships) though some Librarians can do astrotelepathy like an astropath. Space Marine ships are, like the adeptus astartes they carry, the best warships in the imperium, able to take more punishment than ships catagorically larger, and generally come armed with planet killer weaponry and bombardment cannons... so very nice that can crack a normal battleship like an egg... now if only they came with nova cannons. *note to self and ambitious renegade techmarines...*

Navigators are a must. They are the only ones who can do warp jumps properly, and you have to be born with the correct mutation to do it. All that means is that the space marines have a compact with one of the navigator houses, who will provide a small group of navigator for each ship. Navigators work shifts, so just one navigator is not enough (without augmentation at least). It would also make sense in that having just one navigator would be incredibly risky. If he died, noone would be able to pilot the ship home (quickly, 1-2 lightyear jumps are supposedly possible without navigators, but is very short compared to average navigator jumps).

As mentioned, alliances with navigator houses supply the navigators and similar arrangements with the Adeptus Astra Telepathic and Ad mech would supply astropaths and tech priests. Space marine ships themselves would be supplier by premier forgeworlds, first founding chapters would almost certainly have ships produced on Mars.

Some chapters such as the Space wolves (and i'd imagine other first founding chapters) would have a fair number of battle barges, 5-10. With the rest being strike cruisers and frigates. Newer, less prestigious chapters might have a single barge and then frigates and cruisers for the rest.

For the navigators, i remember one book mentioning that as part of the deal, a navigator patriarch has a bodyguard of space wolf marines. Not someone you'd want to mess with then.

Marine ships are tought and well armed but they aren't really meant as fleet vessels (with some exceptions, the fleet based chapters such as the Black Templars). Marine ships are generally meant to get to a planet, the troops and provide close support. Marines also excel at hit and run attacks and so getting in close to enemy ships, where armour, firepower and Astartes boarding parties can make a real difference.

Ships are crewed by chapter serfs, humans drafted by the chapters as support crew. These chaps tend to higher moral than navy ratings but are other wise normal humans. Marines command when aboard but its easy to think of situations when ALL the marines leave the ship (planet side invasions for instance) so the chapter serfs must have a command structure that goes all the way up to captain level.

The crews are most definitely NOT provided by the Navy- the Astartes chapters have total military autonomy, and would not be happy about relying on the IN for their ships and crews.

And there is a fair bit of tension/resentment on the part of the Navy about the Astartes adoption of lance armed RSVs (Rapid Strike Vessels, essentially frigates and smaller- like the Firestorm and Gladius), as they are effective gunboats for fleet actions, as opposed to the role prescribed by the Codex for an Astartes fleet- planetary assault and blockade running. Unfortunately for the IN, the Dark Angels (who pioneered the Gladius) had the political and military clout to pretty much ignore them

My impression, from the novels, is that the Astartes ships would generally have full human crews, including a full command crew. All of them would be chapter serfs. You would then have a very small (2-6 or so) group of Astartes that are actually trained for naval combat. The Astartes would only assume control of the ship in certain circumstances leaving most of the operations to the ships actual human captain.

Fleet based Chapters would probably have a full time Astartes command crew (maybe 8-10 SM's) and would probably be much more active in day to day operations. I would hazard a guess that they would still have a full human command crew for times when all the Astartes deploy.

When to damaged to serve but not badly enough for a dreadnought, so SM will take service as Captain aboard the chapter vessel. Space wolfs come to mind or is it the BA books can't ever remember.

Some use crews of servitor, they are highly sophisticated and very automated with a compliment of chapter serf (to be recycled or used living!).

Most of the SM ships are top of the line ships, many will hold tombs of fallen brothers and chapters relics, especially for fleet based chapters.

I appreciate all the input with what I got here and in the DW forum I should have enough to flesh out my scenario. My characters are going to come across an old Battle Barge of the Blood Ravens(my understanding is that this chapter is also a fleet heavy chapter having no homeworld and dependant on deepstrikes for most battles). One of my DW players is Blood Raven, on this ship if he looks in the right spots and makes the right rolls he will learn that this ship is one of the Original Ships of the Chapter, and that the Blood Ravens are a successor to Raven Guard. This will be in addition to my campaign plot hooks and what not involving the tyrant star and what not.

For the DW ship I was thinking The Pious Immolation a modified firestorm frigate owned and opperated by the Calixian Conclave. Since DW is not a chapter so much as an orginization and really just getting transport to their next objective I figured an Inquisitional ran ship would be ok for them.

As an aside, conversions from BFG to Rogue Trader for Space Marine vessels can be found here

Fortinbras said:

Nice, thanks for that.

Gribble_the_Munchkin said:

The Space Wolves novels by William King set this precident (and a rather entertaining one) and are carried on by Lee Lightner (fun books, good characters).

Nimon said:

Well, there's no reason for it not to be under the command and control of the Deathwatch itself, since they are actually independent from the Inquisition, being their ally instead of their subordinate.

And I read somewhere, can't remember for the life of me (might have been in Helsreach, or maybe Rites of Battle even), that Space Marines that have been seriously wounded end up crewing a ship, or running training, while they recover.

Blood Pact said:

Ya I had considered that, but I was thinking DW in general has a small presence in the area and was thinking they would be needed as ground forces. The DW do have another ship of their own in the sector, but I had that placed in a differant location and thought being a more covert operation they would probably tend not to have an entire fleet, and rely on their allies in the conclave for transport when possible.

What I think I will do though is make a High Ranking DW Kill-Marine part of the Tyrantine Cabal and one of those in Command of the Conclave vessel.