Hey, I was wondering if the new fettering/pushing rules from Ascension also apply to Interrogators and Inquisitors? The fluff on page 124 mentions that only Primaris Psykers are trained in those techniques (along with RT Astropaths), but there is no mechanical ability in the Primaris Psyker rules that specifically sets them apart from Inquisitors and Interrogators. I realize that there is a lot of debate over this, but has there been any definitive answer from FFG? Thanks.

That is up to individual interpretation, unfortunately, unless someone has posted an answered email somewhere.

The issue, of course, is language used:

"If a psyker survives long enough to be elevated to the rank of Primaris, he learns to... modulate, or fetter, his powers."

Some emphasize the specific mention of the Primaris rank, with an implied unequaled experience in such training, as a necessary component to learning how to fetter.

Others, myself included, emphasize the "surviving long enough" aspect as implying that it is the experience required of a psyker to have possibly attained such a high rank, not the actual rank as such, that provides the training required. I can only assume that an Inquisitor Psyker or Adept Psyker would have similar levels of psychic experience by the time they, too, reach ascension level (Moreso the Inquisitor, especially if a psyker previously, and I might waver at the adept).

My personal opinion is that it's really quite silly that more "limited" use of power would be denied to characters who, quite frankly, shouldn't be bothered with phenomena unless they're doing more than 1 moderate psychic task at a time. Also, of those most in NEED more subtle or less dangerous displays of power, I argue Adepts and Inquisitors will exceed the Primaris (who is far less likely to be doing non-combat or undercover work, and far more likely to be in the sort of life-and-death situations where the dangers of pushing are outweighed by the overwhelming dangers of holding back). Primaris no doubt has the experience in warp manipulation to have learned the skill as well, I'm just saying it wouldn't be its Modus Operandi like it would for Adepts and, circumstantially, Inquisitors.

If you read the fluff on Primaris Psyker it says they have there skull removed and all sorts of wards inscribed. In my opinion that is why the Primaris gets better control over his powers. Don't get me wrong I would love it if my interrogator could fetter his powers, but it would be less "fun". In the end I think it comes down to what your GM wants.

Personally I've always considered the Fettering/Pushing rules to apply to all psykers in Ascension but I haven't heard of an official ruling of this matter. I'm of the opinion that if they were intended to be the sole recipients of such an expanded/altered method of rules, there would have been more indication than one (primarily fluff-based) sentence in the preliminary description of the new rules. Mentions of their singular privilege in the Primaris Psyker section, especially somewhere in their Ascended Traits, would seem almost unavoidable were such restriction intentional.

Furthermore, Astropaths, Space Marine Librarians, etc. make use of the Push/Fettered rules so it is clearly not "unique" in the universe to Primaris psykers, but rather something many sufficiently high-level and experienced psykers possess. I believe the specific mention of Primaris in the Ascended Powers section to be anecdotal, not exclusive. Psykers at the Ascension level, all psykers, would presumably have attained a similar level of power and control.

Regardless, I can see both interpretations from RAW, and even understand the inclination to let the Primaris have a little bit of candy to set them above other psykers. However, since the clarification that the Psyker's Gift elite advances may only be taken once each, this seems an unnecessary concession: Primaris will dominate any other class in the realm of psychic power in short order. Ultimately, this interpretation of rules will probably boil down to GM decision.

If you wish to reserve the Fettered/Push rules for Primaris only, consider giving other psykers fairly cheap access to the Psychic Supremacy talent, pg.26 DotDG. It would allow them to ignore the Phenomena of the first 9 rolled when using their powers at half or lower than half of their max Psy Rating. I believe it is Discipline specific as well, though you might consider dropping that (otherwise, you could still get Perils while rolling for Minor powers as they do not have a "school"). Keep in mind this last option is a compromise or possible GM fiat on the matter and not my personal interpretation.

At Last Forgot said:

Odd, that is the opposite of the clarification I was given when I asked the Devs shortly after Ascension came out. Happen to have a reference I could check out?

My mistake, I just went and read further into the subject. I had been reading the boards and heard the "only once" rule mentioned a few times without realizing it was in the context of "only once per Rank".

I was in a campaign wherein the fettering was for Primaris Psykers only.

The only problem I had with that was what about Rogue Trader? The fettering/push rule originated there... and characters who were not full out Primaris Psykers could use that... at the DH equivalent of rank 5.

While I do tend to agree that Primaris should probably have this cookie alone, I also wouldn't see anything wrong with a GM allowing other characters to pick up the ability to fetter... so long as they first took Psychic Supremacy as a prerequisite, and then paid 1000 experience.

BTW, RAW Psychic Supremacy is pretty useless once you gain the fettered ability, so in my game when I have a Psyker get to ascension who has this ability, they get its effect (ignore the first 9 rolled) on unfettered rolls, though not on push ones.

In our campaign every psyker may use powers fettered and I think that's good.
This way you can use minor powers whenever it comes in handy without having to fear to kill yourself.

In addition it saves a lot of time because for most minor powers we don't have to roll at all.
When the roll needed is lower than the wp bonus + number of dice rolled, so that rolls of all 1 are enough to succeed an with no overbleed why bother rolling.

Umbranus said:

And, once you go up in rank, major powers. Doesn't psykers with the right powers auto win pretty much anything with their one drawback removed?

Graspar said:

This is why I don´t like the ability to fetter at all.

On high levels the only thing that can stop a psyker is a sororita (by burning fate points), people with really specialized and expensive equipment or the psyker himself (by blowing himself up).

And let´s be honest, it´s not very probable that a group contains the first two. Which means that the only hope a group has is that the psyker rolls a 9.

I would restrict fettering to primaris psykers simply because they are supposed to be the most dangerous psykers around. It fits the fluff that they blow any other amateur-psyker away.

To be honest, psykers pretty much own everything regardless of whether they can roll Perils or not, especially once they get Favored of the Warp. And this is coming from a player who primarily prefers psykers.

At Ascension level, I'm a strong proponent of some re-balancing of the Psychic Powers system, with the immediately obvious choice being to replace most instances of Willpower Bonus when referred to in power descriptions with Psy Rating used to manifest the power. Perhaps allow some other specific talents to increase this effective number when manifesting by some geometric number (Discipline Focus increases effective Psy Rating by 1 or something, but does not allow you to roll extra dice when manifesting). This eliminates the main scaling concern when it comes to Ascension level psykers: Unnatural Willpower scales algebraically and rolls faces (Willpower 90, Unnatural Willpower (x2), this means that Rank 9 or shortly thereafter you can casually be throwing about 18 Force Bolts for 1d10+18 damage each if Munchkin statted).

The other alternative being: do not roleplay with munchkins if it can be avoided. Personally, my psyker will be Ascending to Inquisitor soon. She focuses on using Biomancy and various minor powers to essentially impersonate anyone, and she is a Diviner as well. Very much eschews the battle powers that break the game.

But I don't want to derail the thread in such discussion. As I previously stated, I really am of the belief that Fettered/Pushing were designed to be used by all psykers at Ascension level.

I think you're contradicting yourselves when you say that high ranking psykers are too powerful and for that only the powerful psykers should become even more powerful.

For example my adept has only one major power and it's one that grants supernatural awareness. I don't remember becaure I haven't used it yet.
So how overpowered can such a char become by using his powers fettered?

But the psyker with unnatural WP and an arsenal of combat powers like force barrage that can kill nearly every enemy in one round if he wishes so should get this ability? I realy can't follow this train of thought.

Umbranus said:

But then again, where would your adept who possess only modest psychic potential have learned to fetter? Fettering in my mind is not something that you wake up oneday and know how to do. It requires massive amounts of brutal training.

The more powerful the psyker is, the more probable that the right authorities will notice and grant that training.

I might only be speaking for myself here but I'm not exactly saying that only high level psykers are powerful. All psykers are or can be powerful and something which makes them more powerful shouldn't be given out willy nilly, it's for late game when the rest of the characters are also crazy proficient in whatever they do.

It's not exactly a contradiction to say that things that make characters a lot more powerful should be held back until the other characters can also gain their über talents, it's how most level based games work.

That being able to use powers fettered should not be allowed before ascension is an idea I could go with.
But to only give it to those psykers who already can decimate whole towns without breaking sweat is nothing I would like.

I'm not saying I agree with the concept that only Primaris should be able to use these rules, just that I can understand the thought process.

Try these new rules on for size: fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=100&efcid=38&efidt=447115

Deals with most of the Ascension level issues, in my opinion.