Hello folks!

I'm an arkham horror player and a new forum user.

First of all consider that me and my friends are playing with base set + king in yellow + innsmouth horror.

I'd like to ask some tips on how to use a couple of chars, that I love for their lore/look but it looks like I can't find a clever and usefull way to play them:

1) Dexter Drake: since we are playing with personal stories the first thing I try to do is complete the quest so I can use most of spells for free. But then is the problem, what should I do? With only 3 will I feel a bit weak in fighting huge monster. Is just me or it's a char a bit hard to play? It has low luck too. I suffer slow start up, since i need to get 2 tomes to become a good caster, and then search for spells. So I usually spend the first 4/5 turns buying/shopping.

What am I doing wrong? What should I focus more?

2) Ashcan: same as before. Is it me, or it's good, but need some time to prepare?

Thanks alot for reading, sorry for bad english, but i'm italian

BrillantNeon said:

#1: Try to get Dexter devoured and replaced with an even average investigator . Dexter's only good skill slider is Speed/Sneak and mainly because he has Speed 5. But Fight/Will and Lore/Luck are some of the worst of any investigator. Even maxed, Will 3 isn't really that good, especially when combined with Fight 1. On the other end, Fight 4/Will 0, well, he can take on Colour Out of Space and have a shot of beating it. For Dexter the OW-tripper, Lore/Luck slider is a serious issue. You need Luck in the OWs (generally I want to max Luck), but if you do that, his spells become borderline useless. If you go with Lore, will fail every Luck check ever created. How are you spending 4-5 turns shopping with Dexter's $5? Unless you keep drawing stuff that costs over 5, you have to buy something. Luckily, Tomes do tend to be on the cheap side, but even then, he probably has money to buy one Tome (although KiY is just $2).

#2: He needs even more luck to pass his PS, basically you want Dreamlands gate to be the first or second gate to open, otherwise forget about passing his PS. Barring Naacaal Key, you have no control over his PS, it's pure luck. Best bet is to just collect two Clues and hit an OW, if that OW happens to lead to Dreamlands, nice, if not, it's a seal (if you can pull it off).

(Your English seems just fine to me. :-) )

With some characters, it seems to depend somewhat on their initial draws. Dexter can be very good if he happens to get some good initial spells, or is very good for helping other people get good spells due to his special ability to draw two spells and pick one. If he doesn't, then yes, you'll want to probably spell hunt a little. We tend to go ahead and spend his first turn to get the "magic lessons" from Ye Olde Magic Shoppe, since he starts there anyway and has enough money for them right away. That, combined with his 3 starting spells (Shriveling and the two random draws), will give him 4 spells after his first turn...that's plenty to be a very effective caster in AH, and Shriveling is one of the better combat spells, especially if you happen to have another good one-handed weapon/spell. I don't have Innsmouth, so I've never used his personal story, but to me, if you manage to accomplish it, it should make him even more useful (I'm not sure I'd pursue it aggressively right off, though...most spell costs can be managed by occasional trips to Arkham Asylum or through the aid of Carolyn Fern if you have her). However, even without that, Dexter has 5 Sanity, which is enough to be a pretty effective caster. Decide your strategy based on what spells you get. If you get some nice combat bonus spells, he has enough Sanity and Stamina to serve as a decent fighter. If you get a lot of utility spells ("Heal" and such), he may want to try to support what other investigators are doing. I tend to personally hope for utility spells like Heal or Find Gate or such, as spell-based combat is usually just my backup plan if I don't get a good, reusable unique item weapon (Sword of Glory forever!). If you are dependent on spells for combat, you are unlikely to be the group's main fighter because you can usually not be relied on to take out more than one monster at a time, and really there's no getting around that, so I generally don't use spells to be a primary fighter...just to clear out a monster once in a while. Dexter's not as strong a caster as, say, the Librarian from Kingsport (who starts with Dexter's personal story reward), but he's better at getting good spells in the first place.

Ashcan Pete is amazing...in the right situation. His special ability to look at (and choose from) the bottom of a few of the decks should not be overlooked. It comes in especially handy when someone else buys from a store and more than one of the items is something that will serve the group. (For instance, we actually had both an Elder Sign and the King In Yellow appear once at the Curiosity shop, so we bought one and had the Ashcan player work to get the other). Furthermore, because of Duke, he has 5 Sanity and 6 Stamina, which combines with his 5 fight (pretty high) to make him almost an ideal fighter right from the start, or a terrific gate-closer. Keep in mind that most other characters with high Fight have very low Sanity...Pete's Sanity is quite good, which means he can afford to fail a few horror checks here and there. We generally try to get Pete an ally that gives him a further Fight bonus (like Mountain Murphy), and then he's a great fighter without even needing a weapon...or a great gate sealer thanks to his high fight, starting 3 Clue tokens, terrific sneak, and good Sanity and Stamina values). I'd honestly probably do this: first try to grab 2 more clues to be ready to seal a gate. Next, look for a gate with a -1 or +0 rating if available (you can probably go as bad as a -2 rating if you need to). If one isn't available, find some of the lighter monsters to fight, but be on the lookout and go to seal one of those gates as soon as possible. As soon as you have enough trophies, go to Ma's to get an ally and pick the one with the highest fight bonus. Once you've done that, Pete can be an effective fighter or gate sealer no matter what your initial draws were.

Dam said:

Yes, same thoughts that came in my mind everytime that I play with him. But even more, the most irritating thing is not even the luck/lore thing, but the lack in will. Usually I tend to be lucky while buying so I end up finishing the quest, and for money when we play we try to help each others with money, so let's say that if i finish my quest with some money i will give it to someone else who needs to buy too, and vice versa.

But even with 2 shrivelling spells at the start (that is +12potential in combat rolls) the terror roll will tear apart every illusion of grandeur

Most of monster of -2 on terror roll and with 3 of will you risk to run out of sanity very very soon, or even to get insane against monsters that deal 4 sanity point of damage.

It's sad that is quite underpowered, and it's not me doing something wrong

It was my fav char of the game because it looked so magic !!

I will stick the gravedigger next game

BrillantNeon said:

Honestly, I think you might be looking at that as a little too bad. It's okay to just go ahead and take sanity damage from time to time (actually, unless it would kill me, I very often choose to do just that with any character with 4 or more Sanity), and if you're getting a +12 on combat rolls, + your normal fight of up to 4, that's a potential of 16. And with his personal story, he does it without taking Sanity costs from the two Shriveling spells. You can just go ahead and take the Sanity damage in many cases, then, and plow right through the monster. That lets him serve as a good sudden strike against a single strong monster if you need it. If his Sanity is at max, you can survive sanity damage from just about every monster in the game.

But yeah...overall, I wouldn't make Dexter a fighter unless you just happen to be in the right place at the right time. I'd make him a spell gatherer for other investigators, or try to get a bunch of utility spells and use them well. You don't have to be a fighter or a gate sealer to help your team out quite a bit, especially in a game with four or more investigators. Dexter's choice ability makes him more likely to be able to get interesting spells like Heal, Shroud of Shadow, Intervene, or of course things like Find Gate and such. And of course if you somehow managed to get Markings of Isis, even the Horror check really wouldn't be that much of a concern.

Agreed. Dexter is pretty unpopular, but I do think he's better than he gets credit for. That lovely Shriveling he starts with is really there to trick you into thinking he's a combat caster instead of a kickass utility caster. (Notwithstanding the fact that he's great against fire vampires, and might have to take the sanity hit to take out a pesky gate-blocking ghost (assuming none of the other investigators were unfortunate enough to get stuck with holy water in their starting equipment).) Aside from all the uses that Sdrolion already mentioned, if you can get him those two tomes and an Arcane Insight, he'll be like a souped-up Jacqueline Fine...heck, practically on a par with Patrice as a support character.

First of all, thanks alot for answering

Probably you are right and I'm just a bit disappointed by our last game in which I sucked totally with dexter and I start thinking about some problems.

Usually with some luck/help/cooperation I do manage to get another one-handed offensive spell, so it's not a problem actually to kill something, the problem let's say it's surving the terror check. Anyway as you mentioned probably I was a bit too john-rambo going out and trying to kill everything that moves a step.

Next time I'll try to focus a bit more on trying to be a supporter caster with heals and arcane vision - if i'm able to get one, and just be a back up fighter with the use of some spells.

subochre said:

I think the bit comparing him to Jacqueline to Patrice was either really funny or somewhat off ;') souped down maybe. That being said, I think he's underrated as a support character (but I'd be lying if I said I didn't groan when I draw him against a tough AO/herald). Also, presuming it wasn't a joke, Patrice is not the same thing as Arcane Insight, the reason why she is superior is she allows you to rid yourself of inconvenient mythos cards (rather than attempting to postpone them indefinitely). At best, (presuming you don't mind the constant sanity drain and can successfully cast it every turn) Arcane Insight is equivalent to two uses of Jacqueline. Not nearly on par. It's primary use, beyond spoiling the suspense of the game ;') is allowing unscrupulous players to combo it with Kate when Innsmouth isn't in play (and sometimes even when it is), and make a boring game even more boring ;'D I swear, I'm not *that* unscrupulous.

Also, generally speaking, Mists of Releh is much better than Shroud of Shadows (easier to cast, lower cost to use).

Edit: wah ha ha, I have retroactively made the "following" posts nonsense.

And infinitely better than Wrack. Seriously. Who made that into a spell and thought it was a good idea? I'm okay with Shadows, since it can add to general sneak checks (for encounters, or not getting arrested), but really Wrack? Come on! (my only thought on its use is if you have this spell, survive the horror check, have 1 sanity left, and are Surprised by a monster...)

(also, substitute "Patrice" with Jacqueline for the second half of Avi's post. But comparing him to Patrice did make me giggle...)

Avi_dreader said:

You meant Jacqueline, didn't you?

It wasn't yet eight AM when I posted ;')

I've never played with personal stories, but I really like playing with Ashcan Pete to run around and fight monsters. (Plus you get to start with a puppy! ) And having an ally at the beginning of the game never hurts.

I'm curious how others handle Sister Mary. I always lose the blessing quickly and can't stand her!

Personal Stories make Mary better. You should play using them, since they make the characters more dynamic. They're really not specifically tied to Innsmouth so you don't need to use anything else in that expansion.

Or, if you prefer not to, the way I've "fixed" Mary before personal stories was to start her with three clues. It seems fair if you reconsider the value of a starting Blessing, and works with her backstory. Plus, it gives her a task right off of the bat: she's the only character who has no clues and no money and no reliable weapons, making her effectively directionless.

Derufin said:

(Plus you get to start with a puppy! )

SECONDED! Before any leaden hearts get in here to trumpet any other "better" allies...I Duke! And once Pete has compensated for his lousy Speed and acquired even a small weapon, he's a fantastic Street Sweeper!

Mary's Personal Story tends to "fix" her up pretty well, but back in the day, I used to allow her to make a Will Check that, if successful, allowed her to reroll her Blessing Check if it came up a 1. If she came up with ANOTHER 1 after that...well, that's not a failed Blessing Check, that's an OMEN.

I usually draw equipment for Pete last, and see what's on the bottom. If it's a weapon, or something uniquely awesome (like an old journal, and people have plenty of weapons already) I snag it! And he's nice to have to get that neat spell at the bottom of the deck...

Derufin said:

Tactical devouring. Find a Moon beast, and feed it with Mary. Or use the Flute of the Outer Gods when she's low with Sanity. Or pray for the Devouring gate (from the Lurker expansion) to appear under her feet ::laughter::

Derufin said:

Jokes aside (as you'd hav argued she is not my fave character), the greatest force of Mary is her blessing. Without blessing, she's a very low level character. But as others have said, her Personal Story helps. Since you have Innsmouth, play with Personal Stories. They're a lot of fun and they are very helpful at fixing some weak characters

I only allow Mary to draw or cast Christian type spells - Bless, Heal, Greater Banishment, Revelation of Script, and Intervene. It makes her more thematic and more powerful, since it's easier to predict which spells she'll receive.

Julia said:

::Laughter:: now now, I hope that's not what you've been doing in the league games. I probably should have made a Mary Devouring = an instant loss ;'D

(Okay yeah the Patrice thing may have been a bit of hyperbole; Dexter was the first character I won with, and I get a little nostalgically defensive. But when he's passed his PS and can Insight for free (and is therefore hopefully also packing two tomes), the ability to not just predict, but consistently control gate openings and rumors three turns out is something that I do genuinely believe approaches Violinist McCluemonster levels of unstoppability (even if you're not Kate-abusing it, which, yeah, that's pretty awful))

subochre said:

I'm amused, but unconvinced ;')

If it's any consolation, I like Dexter too. But I don't think he's any better than a third tier character. Even if you get lucky and can pass his story early in the game, he's still only a low second tier character.

Avi_dreader said:

My high ethic values hindered me to let a nun be devoured, so Mary was in play *always* ::rolling eyes:: But I'm still on Finn's side, and I will always be there. Use her as a tent.

Anyway, I never had a character be devoured during your League. I have the curious feeling this can't last forever...

Julia said:

Heh... It'll happen when you lose ;')

Bear in mind, I tend to penalize devourings with my creations (and like other creations that do the same), so, tactical devouring isn't usually an option most of the time. Plus item carry over disincentivises it to a certain extent (especially in the first five scenarios where Mary is used every time).

Avi_dreader said:

Don't worry, it's clear in my mind ::laughter:: anyway, I never ever had a tactical devouring, apart from Silas sacrificing himself when I need the last seal

Innsmouth finally showed up, so I'll take a look at personal stories. I've never had a tactical devoring, they're always very VERY inconvenient for me. The first game we played (well...that we played correctly) I had Joe Diamond with a ton of weapons so the first turn I go to kill a dimensional shambler get lost in time and space and therefore devoured because of the ancient one. T_T That wasn't a pretty way to start.