It occurs to me, by the description, that stalker rounds do not explode, thus the tearing quality normally associated with a bolter should not apply. It being my opinion that the tearing quality on bolters was included to simulate the normal mass-reactive explosives in most other forms of bolt ammunition (including the vanilla bolt round).
Just throwing that out there.
Oh and solid mercury? What? Are the rounds kept frozen?
Deathseed said:
It occurs to me, by the description, that stalker rounds do not explode, thus the tearing quality normally associated with a bolter should not apply. It being my opinion that the tearing quality on bolters was included to simulate the normal mass-reactive explosives in most other forms of bolt ammunition (including the vanilla bolt round).
Just throwing that out there.
You'd also think that it does Impact damage rather than Explosive, but...
I'm also amused by the idea of 'solid mercury' - the ammo is so cool it keeps it's mercury solid!
The Mercury could be mixed with a chemical to put it in that stat or subjected to radiation, simular to the infamous"Red Mercury" project by russian scientists, though that would make it more of a plasma state then solid or liquid. This is all sci-fi though so who knows.
Good point. I'll probably house-rule that as well.
Nimon said:
simular to the infamous"Red Mercury" project by russian scientists
You mean entirely fictional?
Nah... it makes no sense. Stop press: 40k sometimes employs bad pseudo science. I appreciate this may come as quite a shock to you!
Siranui said:
Nimon said:
simular to the infamous"Red Mercury" project by russian scientists
You mean entirely fictional?
Nah... it makes no sense. Stop press: 40k sometimes employs bad pseudo science. I appreciate this may come as quite a shock to you!
Well if you would have quoted the entire paragraph instead of taking a sentence out of context, you would have gotten the last one where I state"It is all Sci-Fi so who knows".
Siranui said:
40k is to Science Fiction as a woman in a nurse costume is to a medical professional - it might look vaguely similar at a distance, or if you're not looking too hard, but they're clearly not the same thing. The 40k universe has more in common with a fantasy setting than it does sci-fi; it just happens to contain starships and lasers alongside the magic swords, sorcerers and monsters.
Nimon said:
Well if you would have quoted the entire paragraph instead of taking a sentence out of context, you would have gotten the last one where I state"It is all Sci-Fi so who knows".
I was specifically mentioning Red Mercury because it's a hoax.
Although 40k is most certainly NOT sci-fi. Just because it's futuristic, it doesn't mean that it's sci-fi. 40k uses science as a mere plot device in the same way as Star Wars.
Siranui said:
Nimon said:
Well if you would have quoted the entire paragraph instead of taking a sentence out of context, you would have gotten the last one where I state"It is all Sci-Fi so who knows".
I was specifically mentioning Red Mercury because it's a hoax.
Although 40k is most certainly NOT sci-fi. Just because it's futuristic, it doesn't mean that it's sci-fi. 40k uses science as a mere plot device in the same way as Star Wars.
Yes, It was an Infamous Hoax. So 40k is like starwars, but it is not sci-fi, so star wars isnt sci-fi? It defined sci-fi for many generations. Maybe the shortened term is throwing you off. Science Fiction. It is Fiction, and it is more in the realm of "science" then "fantasy". Lets see if I go to a book store, were are the 40k novels? OH YA THE SCIENCE FICTION SECTION! I guess you will never be a librarian.
I thought that the tearing rule came from the shards of mercury moving quickly through people.
SomVone said:
I thought that the tearing rule came from the shards of mercury moving quickly through people.
That might be one way to look at it, not to mention the weapon itself is very high power, regardless of the rounds being fired from it.
Nimon said:
Science Fiction as a term comes laden with it certain implied elements, such as the presence of science - some science fiction builds upon a solid base of established, understood science, some doesn't. You're also ignoring the notion of sub-genres, or variations within and related to a genre - Star Wars is as frequently referred to as Space Opera as it is as sci-fi.
40k is far more in the realm of fantasy than science; its relationship with science ranges from thin to nonexistent. That it contains starships and lasers and distant worlds doesn't change the fact that it follows more closely the conventions of fantasy than it does science fiction, regardless of where libraries and book shops place a novel (because last time I checked, retailers and distributors weren't the ones who defined genres).
From Wikipedia: "Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.
It differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature (though some elements in a story might still be pure imaginative speculation). Exploring the consequences of such differences is the traditional purpose of science fiction, making it a "literature of ideas".Science fiction is largely based on writing rationally about alternative possibilities."
So... "dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology..." don't think so. In 40k, science is dangerous and mysterious, seldom truly understood, and may as well be magic.
"Its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature" doesn't really fit either, as characters and devices frequently do things regarded as fundamentally impossible by anyone with any actual knowledge of science.
The term " Science Fantasy " is a much better fit for 40k.
"Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting."
Seems to describe 40K pretty well. Fictional impact of waging endless wars against aliens with power armours and other hi-tech gear. Of course 40K is hopelessly pulp fiction, that's why we love it.
Alex
ak-73 said:
"Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting."
Seems to describe 40K pretty well. Fictional impact of waging endless wars against aliens with power armours and other hi-tech gear. Of course 40K is hopelessly pulp fiction, that's why we love it.
Alex
Machine spirits, the warp, a group of shamans that couldn't reincarnate anymore forming an immortal being that ascended to become emperor of mankind, orcs springing forth from mold? Even the wiki page calls it science fantasy.
And with that: You can't make fun of Han Solo because everyone knows the Kessel Run was through the Maw, which was filled with black holes, and traveling that close to event horizons makes your distance shorter!
As for the stalker round: explosive damage type comes from exploding rounds, yes, so it might not be a bad rule to remove the extra hit versus hordes for added realsim.
But does it actually say the tearing comes because the bolt blows up in you? It could still do essentially the same thing as a hollow point round and balloon inside of someone real bad. I'd leave it tearing and the description of the core alone as these have never been all that accurate in fact, and are really just about what sounds cool (promethium is a radioactive element found in the waste of uranium reactions, the core of a standard bolt has been previously called depleted deuterium, which is depleted heavy hydrogen)
Charmander said:
ak-73 said:
"Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting."
Seems to describe 40K pretty well. Fictional impact of waging endless wars against aliens with power armours and other hi-tech gear. Of course 40K is hopelessly pulp fiction, that's why we love it.
Alex
Machine spirits, the warp, a group of shamans that couldn't reincarnate anymore forming an immortal being that ascended to become emperor of mankind, orcs springing forth from mold? Even the wiki page calls it science fantasy.
It's not magic though, it's psionics. Psionics, warp space - all that are regular elements of science-fiction/space opera. Including (techno-)mysticism.
Alex
Nimon said:
So 40k is like starwars, but it is not sci-fi, so star wars isnt sci-fi? It defined sci-fi for many generations. Maybe the shortened term is throwing you off. Science Fiction. It is Fiction, and it is more in the realm of "science" then "fantasy". Lets see if I go to a book store, were are the 40k novels? OH YA THE SCIENCE FICTION SECTION! I guess you will never be a librarian.
I'm not. I'm a writer.
40k and SW are not sci-fi. The idea that every book set in the future is Science Fiction is utterly incorrect and massively ill-informed. You might as well call every sport involving a ball as 'football'. The themes are far more fantasy than science: A power sword is never explained in real depth and is simply a 'magic sword' that doesn't need to make sense (as it would in sci-fi) and is simply there as a cool prop for characters. A bit like light sabres. Science in science fantasy is simply there as a tool to support the epic story-lines, rather than a core concept.
Even the first line of the wiki article on SW describes it as Space Opera. The first line of the one on 40k describes it as dystopian science fantasy. Check for yourself. I guess you'll never be a librarian either, as they'd check their sources and facts before shooting off about a subject.
N0-1_H3r3 said:
Nimon said:
Science Fiction as a term comes laden with it certain implied elements, such as the presence of science - some science fiction builds upon a solid base of established, understood science, some doesn't. You're also ignoring the notion of sub-genres, or variations within and related to a genre - Star Wars is as frequently referred to as Space Opera as it is as sci-fi.
40k is far more in the realm of fantasy than science; its relationship with science ranges from thin to nonexistent. That it contains starships and lasers and distant worlds doesn't change the fact that it follows more closely the conventions of fantasy than it does science fiction, regardless of where libraries and book shops place a novel (because last time I checked, retailers and distributors weren't the ones who defined genres).
From Wikipedia: "Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.
It differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature (though some elements in a story might still be pure imaginative speculation). Exploring the consequences of such differences is the traditional purpose of science fiction, making it a "literature of ideas".Science fiction is largely based on writing rationally about alternative possibilities."
So... "dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology..." don't think so. In 40k, science is dangerous and mysterious, seldom truly understood, and may as well be magic.
"Its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature" doesn't really fit either, as characters and devices frequently do things regarded as fundamentally impossible by anyone with any actual knowledge of science.
The term " Science Fantasy " is a much better fit for 40k.
Well when the book stores start labling them as such and I can find them in the "Science Fantasy" section, then this might make sense. I have always found the material in the Science Fiction section myself.
Nimon said:
N0-1_H3r3 said:
Nimon said:
Science Fiction as a term comes laden with it certain implied elements, such as the presence of science - some science fiction builds upon a solid base of established, understood science, some doesn't. You're also ignoring the notion of sub-genres, or variations within and related to a genre - Star Wars is as frequently referred to as Space Opera as it is as sci-fi.
40k is far more in the realm of fantasy than science; its relationship with science ranges from thin to nonexistent. That it contains starships and lasers and distant worlds doesn't change the fact that it follows more closely the conventions of fantasy than it does science fiction, regardless of where libraries and book shops place a novel (because last time I checked, retailers and distributors weren't the ones who defined genres).
From Wikipedia: "Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.
It differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature (though some elements in a story might still be pure imaginative speculation). Exploring the consequences of such differences is the traditional purpose of science fiction, making it a "literature of ideas".Science fiction is largely based on writing rationally about alternative possibilities."
So... "dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology..." don't think so. In 40k, science is dangerous and mysterious, seldom truly understood, and may as well be magic.
"Its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature" doesn't really fit either, as characters and devices frequently do things regarded as fundamentally impossible by anyone with any actual knowledge of science.
The term " Science Fantasy " is a much better fit for 40k.
Well when the book stores start labling them as such and I can find them in the "Science Fantasy" section, then this might make sense. I have always found the material in the Science Fiction section myself.
Oddly enough, the stores near me call the section Science Fiction/Fantasy.
Nimon said:
Yes, because book shops are the ones who define what genres are.
Personally, I'm not going to use "where I find it in the shops" as the primary means of determining the genre of a book. I think, when it comes to something used to describe the themes in a book's content, then its content is more important than the way a bookshop's shelves are arranged.
N0-1_H3r3 said:
Nimon said:
Yes, because book shops are the ones who define what genres are.
Personally, I'm not going to use "where I find it in the shops" as the primary means of determining the genre of a book. I think, when it comes to something used to describe the themes in a book's content, then its content is more important than the way a bookshop's shelves are arranged.
May I be frank? I find it hard to think of a more irrelevent subject to engage in a heated debate over. I mean it's like... 'is this band still heavy metal or already punk rock crossover' when I was younger. For one person it is and for another it isn't.
Also: don't discount the almighty power of book stores.
Alex
HappyDaze said:
Nimon said:
N0-1_H3r3 said:
Nimon said:
Science Fiction as a term comes laden with it certain implied elements, such as the presence of science - some science fiction builds upon a solid base of established, understood science, some doesn't. You're also ignoring the notion of sub-genres, or variations within and related to a genre - Star Wars is as frequently referred to as Space Opera as it is as sci-fi.
40k is far more in the realm of fantasy than science; its relationship with science ranges from thin to nonexistent. That it contains starships and lasers and distant worlds doesn't change the fact that it follows more closely the conventions of fantasy than it does science fiction, regardless of where libraries and book shops place a novel (because last time I checked, retailers and distributors weren't the ones who defined genres).
From Wikipedia: "Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting.
It differs from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature (though some elements in a story might still be pure imaginative speculation). Exploring the consequences of such differences is the traditional purpose of science fiction, making it a "literature of ideas".Science fiction is largely based on writing rationally about alternative possibilities."
So... "dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology..." don't think so. In 40k, science is dangerous and mysterious, seldom truly understood, and may as well be magic.
"Its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated laws of nature" doesn't really fit either, as characters and devices frequently do things regarded as fundamentally impossible by anyone with any actual knowledge of science.
The term " Science Fantasy " is a much better fit for 40k.
Well when the book stores start labling them as such and I can find them in the "Science Fantasy" section, then this might make sense. I have always found the material in the Science Fiction section myself.
Oddly enough, the stores near me call the section Science Fiction/Fantasy.
Yes for Science Fiction, or Fantasy. And then when you walk down the isle that is how they are broken down. This is really off topic, Do not blam me for calling something Science Fiction when this is how it is presented to me. If you think it better fits the discription of a ham-sandwhich I do not care.
ak-73 said:
May I be frank? I find it hard to think of a more irrelevent subject to engage in a heated debate over. I mean it's like... 'is this band still heavy metal or already punk rock crossover' when I was younger. For one person it is and for another it isn't.
HOW DARE YOU! The only way to solve this is with a dance off. Flagpole, 3:30, be there.
Charmander said:
ak-73 said:
May I be frank? I find it hard to think of a more irrelevent subject to engage in a heated debate over. I mean it's like... 'is this band still heavy metal or already punk rock crossover' when I was younger. For one person it is and for another it isn't.
HOW DARE YOU! The only way to solve this is with a dance off. Flagpole, 3:30, be there.
Beat it!
Alex
Charmander said:
ak-73 said:
May I be frank? I find it hard to think of a more irrelevent subject to engage in a heated debate over. I mean it's like... 'is this band still heavy metal or already punk rock crossover' when I was younger. For one person it is and for another it isn't.
HOW DARE YOU! The only way to solve this is with a dance off. Flagpole, 3:30, be there.
Heh well at least you brought some humor to this. Poor guy just wanted to get some insight on stalker rounds and gets a flame war on what is and isnt sci-fi. Typical in the DW forums I find.