Lynata said:

The same type of contradiction the whole DW book currently is?

Pulse rifles do less damage than a bolter right now. The Codex speaks quitea different language.

Actually, according to GW, all stuff written using the GW IP, regardless of the source, is, due to it being vetted and approved by GW, and are entirely 100% canon. There is no difference in "canon level" between stuff written by GW, and stuff written by Black Library writers, FFG, Sabretooth Games (the guys who make the TCGs of the GW IP settings), etc.

So saying "it's different in the tabletop rules" isn't actually a rebuttal to the assertion that Space Marine armour and weaponry is better than other models of the same weapons, even those used by the Sisters of Battle, as the tabletop game is an abstract of the setting made to fit with d6s being used for everything, and as such is going to be less accurate because of said abstraction.

Even pointing out bits in fluff that say that it's the same isn't a true rebuttal, since GW also say that none of the fluff is 100% correct - some are lies, some are personal opinion of the person writing it, some of it is propaganda, and some of it are half-truths. Just because the Witchhunter Codex (which is now 2 editions out-of-date, and is in serious need of an update) says that Sisters of Battle are just as well equipped as Space Marines doesn't mean that it is so.

All Non-GW fluff is 100% canon with itself. It MAY contrdict another novel/book/even GW product.

The only product free of any personal shift are the codex rules. Space marine and IG statlines have been unchanged since the 3rd edition, with a very low chance of being changed anytime soon.

FFG has a chance to provide euqally untainted and comparable rules for equipment. But they have failed quite a bit, since even power levels qre quite a bit off sometimes (see pulse weapons)

Gahh already have to doublepost.

Thanks Lynata for all the info.

And its basically saying, DW is canon, as long as you play the DW RPG.

Back to power armour.

Have any of you ever thought it strange, that power armour a 100% military device gets shipped without its equally 100% military power source? Especially since power sources are military in application than a suit of armour.

Power armor, terminator armor and dreadnoughts were all inspired R. A. Heinlein's Starship Troopers powered armor. Originally each was conceived as a different class of powered armor but in WH40k fiction each class has been redefined and given a role. Terminator armor is designed as an in between (both in game and in fluff) class between power and dreads which more vehicle like properties while still being personal armor.

Actually, terminator armor is somewhat available through the mechanicus - Praetorians are sometimes (bur not universally) equipped with terminator armor. Inquisitors once in a while can get hold of a set. If you want to RP for a set of armor - this is the one to go for.

Ahh Heinleins Starship troopers (not tha action movie).

Would rip Space marines a new one with ease. You know a standard grunt is superior, when they dont even bother with any type of assault rifle.

Since 40k fluff has Terminator armour being developed as maintenance suits for plasma drives, there should be a clunky civilian version of it floating around. Minus all the useful boosts.

Speaking of the movie... the plastic Cadian line looks a lot like the kit they wore in the movie.

I loved the movie, its a scarily real movie - especially the propaganda parts in relation to mass media. Seems a lot of politicians used the film as inspiration in the 10 years after the show.

Voronesh said:

I think it's just a case of bad wording - similar to how they called non-Astartes bolters and plasma guns "civilian" (lol) in the original DH core rulebook. Later got switched to "mortal", which is still somewhat misleading (as Marines are called mortal as well as per their own 5E Codex), but I suppose it's hard to find a better term. Since Marines are often described as superhuman or abhuman, I'd have probably just called them "human" or "standard" weapons, if such a distinction is really necessary.

Hantheman said:

Praetorians? I recall an Imperial Guard regiment by that name, but I'm sure you are not referring to that one. Some kind of special Skitarii section?

And yes, I agree about the plastic Cadians. Liked the movie, too. It was popcorn cinema, but it was very enjoyable (music, designs, FX, propaganda, ...).

The third movie has them use power armour / mechas, by the way. It's not as good as the first one, but better than the second.

Praetorians: These are the elite of the Skitarii. They are super-enhanced (bionically/cybernetically/chemically/genetically etc) humans who are augmented with a huge array of cybernetics and heavy weapons. They are, essentially, a sort of counterpart to Obliterators. However, many old sources also suggest that Praetorians are instead an elite Skitarii type following the fashion of Imperial Guard storm trooper units, but with slightly more augmentations, putting them somewhere between storm troopers and Space Marines. In the short story Deux es Mechanicus, Praetorians are in fact servitors, rather than living humans. They move on tank treads and are armed with powerful weaponry, such as plasma cannons*3. All of these are completely plausible, and based on the preferences of the Magos who build them.

Maybe the hard rethorics on this matter only point to what the true canon keeps telling us anyway .

Its the mind, not the weapon.

They even had a CGI serious i think. Which was a mix really.

And then there is an old Computer game. You start out with movie troopers and upgrade to book troopers.

Just read the termi armor rules, well the good news is that you do not need a black carapace - nor does it have any functions that interfaces with it anyway. Aside from being basically a walking (can't run - you lose that ability) tank, the only disadvantage I see is that the armor has very specific weapon couplings and all of those are annoyingly hard to get astares weapons.

I loved the book, the movie (part 1) and the game. Never watched part 3, managed to live tru 30 mins of part 2 berfore my brain screamed for mercy and I gave up. Part 2 was beyond bad - made Battlefield Earth look good level of bad....

Wasnt there a shooter game as well? Not to sure about that though.

Terminatour armour is just really hard to get though, since it is rare compared against power armour.

The only chapters to have an abundance of terminator armour are those of the 1st legion. The weapons are rather limited, but one can always become a walking human melee monster tank. The thunder hammer (fluff is incorrect, it IS the exactly the Marine thunder hammer) would be a legal fit. Nothing says badass like a terminator with dual thunder hammers. Add wolf pelt and you will project the veritable image of a RT looking for combat.

The Frozen Reaches would be a perfect backdrop for such a Rogue Trader.

The astartes weaponry is dependent, if your GM adheres to the higher powers (Codex) or FFG rules. (I also dislike the fact, that terminator armour is more protective in 40k than DW when compared against artificer armour: 2AP do not replace the 5+ invul save)

But aquiring such a suit of armour would be a truly grand endeavour.

Voronesh, the terminator armour in DW gets a 30% chance to outright ignore attacks which is similar to a field but with no chance of overload. It even almost exactly matches the percentage chance of the invulnerable save.

I think the astates thunder hammer has +1 damage, concussive instead of shocking an weighs a bit more or something minimal over the human one. A thunder hammer is a **** good weapon . Our game has a house rule that requires weapons to match your size after you wear armor, so far we have ruled that hulking weapons includes ork weapons, astates weapons and ogryn ripper guns without customization.

Decessor said:

Ahhh missed that one then. I take everything back in that regard. And will state the opposite then.

A slight mistake on my part: it's 35% not 30%. p164 of the corebook.

May I ask an elucidation on this matter as well?
I've checked out Dark Heresy, Black Crusade and in both the power suply is different (5 hours in dark heresy and 24 in black crusade) but there is no mention on time in the DeathWatch manual.

Sororitas power armor is listed as having a Very Rare availability in Blood of Martyrs, which is also the rarity of light power armor in the Rogue Trader book. Given the resources of a Rogue Trader, I see no reason why it should be any harder than an Extremely Rare acquisition test to get a suit with the military power back already installed, or a Very Rare test to upgrade an existing suit.

Fortinbras said:

No.

The Imperial Navy Commanders, and Space Marine Captains and Commanders can also. Is stated in Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Blood Angels.

MrFlopi said:

An especially froggy Rogue Trader with a Nova Cannon or two can pound a planet into glowing space rubble if he had a mind to....of course it should be a xenos planet or a planet xenos overran - just to be sure theres no uncomfortable stares.

Objulen said:

All Power Armor (even light with batteries) is Extremely Rare in Rogue Trader. Errata'd that way. And if a suit with batteries is ER Fusion Backpacks should be what? Easier to get?

bobh said:

True, but somewhat irrelevant to the underlying point. The power pack for the Sister's of Battle Armor exists, and Rogue Traders can get it. It's just a question of how hard -- while I agree that it should thus be at least a separate Very Hard requisition test (at least), it's still something that a Rogue Trader can get without too much difficulty (it's something a starting character can get). This can be modified further by having good relations with the Tech Priests or the Ecclesiarchy.