ak-73 said:

It always more sense to balance new material in line with the average and typical, rather than the exception cases. Start simple.

I could make the 'Chaplain argument' for Tac marine stats, too: BS, Will, Fel all cheap, please!

Siranui said:

Up the WS or STR to 750 and i am fine with BS being cheaper

Str at 750 for a tactical, for 250BS? SOLD! That'd be a bit of a no-brainer, really.

im not big fan of balance amongst specialities in DW, i always go for fun factor. Balance in DW dont exist. Compare rank 8 Librarian or BA Assault marine to Apothecary. I know that every speciality have different combat role, balance isnt possible in such setting. Most players that would love to play chaplain have in mind chaplain picture from fluff, skulls and bones, holy club, force field bling, fearless, fanatical, zeal driven monster full of hatred, then they look at RoB DW chaplain and its not only underwhelming but not even funny. RoB DW chaplain lack that wh40k fluff Battle Chaplain feel.

enough about Chaplain

in case of remaining advanced specialities, i liked them (except captain witch should be ascended space marine profession) most need some polish heare and there but overall for me good job.

i don't know if i simply missed something key during my two times rifling through the book but since all the people here are complaining... you don't actually LOSE anything other than the XP to join when getting an advanced specialty, do you? from my quick read, it seemed like you pay the points if you meet the prereqs and then get access to a new table, a special ability, and some wargear (possibly free). i didn't see anything about actually losing your prior advancement opportunities. if that's the case, why are people complaining about the advanced specs? you guys are making it sound like they're markedly inferior when you still have your original progression possibilities to fall back on. i don't think these add-on specs are supposed to make you a combat god (like the 3/3.5 d&d prestige classes where you were absolutely *stupid* for staying in your base class because the prestige classes were so good) and somehow people expected that. the way i see it, you pay 0-5000xp depending on the class to get access to new wargear, new skills, new talents, and new abilities. some may get you more bang for your buck than others but no one is forcing them down players' collective throats. don't like the DW chaplain? make your character's backstory include his chaplaincy in his home chapter but have it not necessarily recognized by the DW (slightly different creeds/religious doctrine)... take a black templar assault marine and load up on the close combat and willpower/fellowship-related abilities... bam! your own chaplain that's not a chaplain.

Siranui said:

I haven't read too much into RoB, would you mind telling me which mechanics these are?

Yanma said:

Off the top of my head, there are two deeds that allow you to trigger other Chapter abilities (either attack or defence) at increased Cohesion cost, and there's a Distinction that allows you to freely gain benefits from other Chapter patterns. Near the back of the book there's two more: If you are taught another Chapter's way of fighting (requires renown 40) by another Marine, you can also reap the benefits of their Chapter patterns, and there's another 'cross training' talent that again allows other stuff to be used at an increased Cohesion cost. All of these cost XP and vary in efficiency, but they all do the job really well.

boruta666 said:

The Deathwatch Chaplain has all of teh things you mention. they get an increase in WS thanks to Hatreds and can give it to a sqaud by having them take an oath. They also get double the benefit of said Hatred to all brothers in support range plus Fearless. That's +20 to WS for those of you not counting. Thats better than most squad mode abilities. They get the skull helm ,rosarius, and crozius arcanum with the package (no need to waste requisition on it). The new talent they pick up can give the whole squad the ability to rer-oll all failed WS tests on a charge (you just need teh appropriate hatred)

On hatreds you get one for picking up the speciality and can buy one more in the skill list. This is in addition to all the hatred you pick up in Death Watch Advances. How is all that not like the Chaplain in TT? Did he not get an extra attack? Fien pick it up as an Elite advance. I think the Chaplian is impressive and fluffy to boot. he just works a little different than a Chapter Chaplain as it should be.

andrewm9 said:

I think people underestimate this ability.

The Chaplain spends a fate point and for the rest of the encounter anyone in support range of the Chaplain gets to re-roll a failed WS on any charge attack. This is a talent, not a squad, solo, or chapter thing. I think some have really underestimated what that can do.

Yanma said:

The Deathwatch Epistolary has access to a psychic power that lets him share his chapter abilities as well.