I really do like how complete Fantasy Flight can be sometimes. With reguard to helmets, I really like that they added rules for when you have helmets off.

But I have a question. When you take it off....where does it go?

Many space marine books move around this. In the Space Wolf books, they couldn't use their advanced senses with their helmet on, but if I remember correctly, they said they "Snap back into place". I got the feeling that they flipped up or were quick to move, like they suddenly enclosed the head.

But seriously. Where do they go? A space marine obviously wouldn't be bothered to carry it under his arm, and for something many take off all the time, there has to be a convient place for it. Somewhere it snaps into place maybe?

I'm really curious on this.

Frostfire said:

Oh, they added rules for that? If so, it seems like a reaction to a debate on these boards. What's the rules for it?

Anyway, I think in many cases, the helmet will go to the belt.

Alex

It's on p. 152 of Rites. I just found it.

But...do you mean under the belt...like a cod piece?

I wanna model this one now.

Frostfire said:

Tied to the belt, I would assume. Do they have any mechanics for going helmetless?

Alex

According to all the fluff I have read it "clips" onto the belt, perhaps via a method of magnetics, like the Di-pole Maglock.

Yes, it's "You don't have armor nor the helmet's abilities while not wearing the helmet." =-P

I always thought they went on the belt, like with Canis here.

ak-73 said:

Yeah. You loose auto senses, aren't environmentally sealed. Vox still works. And you gain some to fellowship tests because your fierce space marine helmet is replaced by your ugly space marine mug (I say number of scars on your face goes as a negative to the modifier). You can also gain some renoun on GM approval for being fearless if that's your take on it.

In the various novels I've read, the helmet "mag-locks" to the marine's belt when he isn't wearing it.

Well, looks like that was answered quick enough.

How bout this one though. The ventilator masks used by Space marine veterans and sargents, where it just covers their mouth. What do they do?

Frostfire said:

Definitely inspired by this forum. No complaints here.

Alex

I saw that rule.

Glad to have been a part of it's origin.

Frostfire said:

I remember something about bolts in the head signify 50 years of service or some such, so depending on how many you had(a blood angel might have a lot!) that might also increase or decrease your battle brothers perception of you.

Consider the lucky Space Wolves character that gets Mk8 "Errant" Armour - any hit to the Head is redirected to the Body on a 1d10 roll of 8+. Not perfect, but it's helful until you can get that Space Wolves-specific helm that allows you to use your Solo ability.

They didn't list the Auto-Senses Modifiers for that helm or the Chaplain's helm... Might matter if you have Mk5 or Mk6 armour.

Suijin said:

Heh, if I read it right they pretty much adopted the suggestions from here, in fact both present schools of thought: additional renown (that was my idea, btw) and bonus to Fel.
Both make sense and FFG did the right thing.

Alex

The Errata says that putting your helmet back on is a Half Action. In RoB this is expanded. It takes a Half Action to quickly don it, but a Full Action if you want the environmental seal. Also, Auto-Senses don't start functioning until the turn after you put it on.

As regards the Fenris Pattern helms, are these just handed out gratis when the Renown requirement is hit? I can't see it specifically stated.

Magnetic clamps lock it to the marines belt when they remove their helm I would imagine.

Suijin said:

Now all we got to do is convince FFG to give Apothecaries a boost the way they did boost the Space Wolves. (Possibly also the IF I haven't seen them yet myself.) With that done all the chapters and specialties should be sufficiently balanced against each other.

But as it stands Apothecaries need some additional love.

Alex

Really? Why? A team without one is basically going to die.

They're pretty darn awesome.

Siranui said:

You're describing the problem: many people pick one out of necessity, out of reason. I'm under the impression that most people prefer other specialties and only few people go "Apothecaries? Hell yeah!" That is because they have no in-combat role other than paramedic. Techmarine can at least be made into decent melee fighters.

What's worse in my eyes is that the Apothecary does not have the off-raw-combat-power role it could have.

We've had a thread about it before but I think all the proposed changes might be too sweeping for FFG to consider. I'll make a new thread about this.

Alex

I'm not a big fan of making clerics awesome at everything AND healing, though. Apoths already get good stat-ups and are a very good melee class later in the game. Until then they're as good (well...better, really) than the tac in melee, and as good as an AM at ranged combat!

Siranui said:

But really... given how iconic an Apo with a Chainsword is... shouldn't he have had early access to Flesh Render? Anyway, it's not about making the Apothecary awesome at everything.

The Assault Marine has the appeal of close combat monster. The Tactical has the appeal of either grand leader or bolter monster. The appeal of "I am the healer and I will be great in melee in Rank 6+" is less tangible.

Anyway, we can continue the debate in the new thread.

Alex

ak-73 said:

I gotta agree with Siranui on this one. Group will die without an apothecary, and they have other roles than healing. Chem use has a wide variety of abilities, from making poisions to giving marines a boost if the Apothecary uses it right. A diagnostic helmet gives you preysense and can only be used by them. I argue he's got all the optional use of a Tactical marine, just with healing abilities.