I have a question that popped up recently while playing RtL: Until now we always played that heroes have explored can still be visited by heroes, although they can not reenter the dungeon there. One of our hero players suggested however that it might be the intention of the rules that the heroes can not visit that location at all anymore once they have explored a dungeon, so not even to just move through that space. That seems a bit harsh to me, but what is your opinion on this? Is the rule just meant to prevent exploring a location twice or is it the intention to prevent movement through an explored space?

I always read it as preventing them from exploring the same dungeon over and over. After all, once the evil monsters are dead, they stay dead. There's no reason really why they shouldn't be allowed to move through a region they heroically liberated from monster menaces...

Thanks, that's also the way we played it, so we'll just stick to that.

Edit: deleted an unnecessarily grumpy reply about 'intentions'. Sorry.

The rules are very clear and there is not even circumstantial evidence for any such intent. See the top of page 17. The only restriction involved in moving and entering dungeons is that you can only enter (to explore) 'a dungeon that has not already been explored' ( and legendary locations/OLs Keep have other restrictions). You can most definitely end the week, or travel through, a dungeon that has been explored.

Corbon said:

Hahahaha.

Haha, I don't want to start a discussion about "the intent" of the rules at all, the point is merely that we are not native speakers and were temporarily confused by the following sentence on page 18:

"The party may not re-enter a dungeon location they have explored for the remainder of the campaign." One of my players pointed out that it said "dungeon location" instead of just "dungeon", which seemed to imply to us after some discussion that you couldn't enter the whole location instead of just the dungeon. That's why I asked here

Yeah, Descent is full of bad wording like that. Basically when they say "re-enter a dungeon location" they mean the dungeon itself not its spot on the map.

Corbon said:

Heh, and this time my post wasn't even meant to be about intentions I was just too lazy to dig up the rulebook

I don't know if anyone has encountered this particular problem my group had for a split second. The party gets 1 xp from visiting the map location, but they don't mark of the dugeon as explored until a dungeon card is drawn. I found this confusing and marking the campaign sheet was weird but they decided to explore it anyway.

Hurdler14 said:

Yes, my bad. I was operating from my wife's PC without a rules pdf and missed the Pg18 reference on a quick read through. Only found pg17 reference.

When the party ends their game-week at a dungeon location they haven’t explored yet, they can enter and explore it. (Pg 17)

The party may not re-enter a dungeon location they have explored for the remainder of the campaign. (Pg 18)

My goodness! Its a complete stuff up in the rules. IMO the word 'location' is not meant to be anywhere in that section (but it is).

'Dungeon locations' are mapboard only and used as such on pages 17 (twice, in two sections), 18 (4x once earlier in the same section and 3 more times in 2 more sections), 19 and 20 (once each, in the same section.

'Dungeon' is used to mean the 'complete set of dungeon levels to be found at one location' on pages 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (where they are defined), 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 24, 25 and 32.

The problem section on page 18 uses the term 'Dungeon Location' 3 time. The first clearly is an error, as it is referencing the 3rd level Master and 'Dungeon Locations' don't have third levels, Dungeons do. The second time it is clearly correct as it is referencing the Mapboard location. The third time is ambigous. I believe it is an error, similar to the first time, but the RAW is clear.

However, the Hero Party doesn't 'enter' dungeon locations ever - they move to them (or move through them with the speed staff item). They only ever 'enter' Dungeons. RtL Pg 10

When moving, the party moves the hero party marker from its current location on the Terrinoth map, along one trail, to a new location. ...

If the heroes end their movement in a dungeon area, they receive one conquest token if they’ve never been to that area before. They may then may enter the dungeon according to the rules under “Dungeons” on page 17.

Unfortunately, RtL Pg 17 wording is very sloppy...

When the party ends their game-week at a dungeon location they haven’t explored yet, they can enter and explore it .

You can't enter a location that has been explored. But you 'enter' dungeons...
Its a mess! Very poor rules writing because the rules use differing terms all the time for the same actions. I will bring it up with my group and I am confident we will house-rule it. Stuff the consequences. Our second house-rule!

Now that's a thorough analysis of the rules! Thanks for that, I'm glad to see that our confusion was somewhat justified . Haslo gave an excellent reason for why it wouldn't make sense to disallow the party to move to a location that they had explored before, so that's what we are going to stick to as well.

Honestly, if the heroes could never return to an explored dungeon location they would be toast.

They could not explore any close dungeons at the start of the game as they would seal off a quarter of the map or they could not return to Tamalir until they had explored said quarter.

Neostrider said:

They get 1CP/XP for visiting the dungeon site on the map, regardless if they enter it or not. What I do on the campaign sheet is to put either a check mark, or a "V" next to the name of the dungeon to show that they have visitied it. That way I remember not to give them the 1CP/XP next time they pass the stop at the location on the map.

kilrah said:

Yeah, this would force the heroes to go to Starfall Forest on their first turn and would oblige them to buy the Staff that allows travelling at double speed immediately after that. Then they could go for Gardens of Tarn etc., dungeons that are not needed for travel to other parts of the map. It wouldn't be impossible, but it would make things harder for the heroes (as well as quite boring in the beginning).

It sounds like the rules as written even prevent players from ever entering the dungeon. lol

Move to location, mark location as visited, try to enter dungeon BUT WAIT! you've already visited it. danggit.

Out of curiosity, would everyone give the +1 XP for visiting the location or for entering the dungeon? If my players were to mad dash and spend weeks moving to a location without entering a single dungeon it could be seen as weird they'd still be getting xp for walking. I can see either arguments and just wondered what people would think

Neostrider said:

We play that the heroes gain +1 XP for visiting (all the new things they see in that location which they didn't know about and so on). So the players could gain quite some XP by just wandering around, but I think that would be a sure way to lose the game, without any opportunities for treasure and only the cash they would receive from some encounters.

Neostrider said:

It not a question, the rules state that they do:

If the heroes end their movement in a dungeon area, they receive one conquest token if they’ve never been to that area before. They may then may enter the dungeon according to the rules under “Dungeons” on page 17.

You move from Tamilir to Theslvyan Highway. Its a dungeon area they have never been to before. They get 1 CT (so 1 XP each) for moving to a new location they have not been to before. They chose not to enter the dungeon and move on to the Gardens of Tarn next turn. They get 1 CT/XP for not having been there before, and then they choose to go into the dungeon. There is a clear distinction in that sentence between going to a location and entering the dungeon at that location.

They could definitely walk around the map getting those free XPs. They'd lose the game by the time the 9th game week hit probably, since a smart OL seeing that would drop Alric right on Tamilir to seige. The Heroes probably wouldn't have time to get back to Tamilir, and if they did and don't even have one Copper treasure will probably get their themselves killed.

As for strangeness, its no different really then the OL getting 1 CP a week for just sitting there.

As for the claim that you can't go to a dungeon area/location once its been visited again, I don't understand that. No, you can't explore the same dungeon twice. You can absolutely pass through the dungeon area again, otherwise you would be limited to 6 dungeons on the map: Theslyvan Highway, Starfall Forest, Blackwing Swamp, Red Echo River provided you bought the boat), Crimson Forest and The Caverns of Thuul (which I always found strange that there is a complete straight shot from Tamilir to the Caverns with no dungeons in between).

Big Remy said:

Its not a claim, its explicit. Pg 18, third paragraph of 'The Third Level' section

The Party may not re-enter a dungeon location they have explored for the remainder of the campaign.

It is quite obviously a case of extremely poor use of terminology and there should not be the word 'location' in that paragraph. It is misused in exactly the same way (and even more obviously wrong) in the first paragraph of that section (it is also used correctly in the second paragraph).

As writen, it is one of the more 'broken' (as in causes the game to break down due to impossibility to follow the rules) rules I have seen in RtL. I would think pretty much everybody would houserule this until it is corrected in an errata/FAQ.

Guess that terminology change was one of those things that my mind just understood from reading all the rules as to what was meant. Its made even worse by the fact that under Hero Move Actions in the description of turn sequence on pg10 the word "location" is never used in reference to a dungeon. its refered to a "dungeon area".

I mean, they almost use the same sentence:

pg10: If the heroes end their movement in a dungeon area , they receive one conquest token if they’ve never been to that area before.

pg17: When the party ends their game-week at a dungeon location they haven’t explored yet, they can enter and explore it.

So yes, its a poor choice of wording on FFG's part.