Nimon said:

Ritual Duel Fighter lets me start with Lightning Attack for only 300 xp. The gains in BS and Int bolster areas that are expensive to increase as an Assault Marine (I'm trying to make a rounded character, not merely a one trick pony), and I really like the Dark Angels Chapter Attack Pattern and Defensive Stances. The DA Solo Mode ability is useful too, even for an Assault Marine (it's usually good for soaking one hit per combat, then you abandon it and try something else). I also like Paranoia, both for the Perception checks against hidden things and the +2 Initiative. So, yeah, i find there to be enough good stuff there, and all of it fits the Dark Angels flavor too (except I'd have preferred Scrutiny over Interrogation as a Chapter Advance, but you can't have everything).

With IF, I'm just not seeing much that really makes them tough - just strong willed, and I somehow got the impression that these were going to be the "tough guys among tough guys" as opposed to just the most pig-headed ones.

Ritual Duel Fighter can give you Swift Attack, Not lightning attack, which as an assualt marine starts with.

They actually make great Devastator (and possibly Tactical Marine) due to their solo mode tho.

When not fighting Hordes, but a bunch of elite level enemies, the Devastator (and Tact marine) will both try and get into cover and than shoot at their target... who are likely to get into cover as well. Doubling your cover is not something to be scoffed at... and neither is ignoring the other guy's cover.

Siegecraft is also far from bad... it is situational of course (how often will you have a few hours to fortify a position?), however, if you do find yourself in a situation where you need to hold off an attack and you have time to prepare, it is very good... especially since it works in conjunction with Siege Master.

I don't know, they don't blow me away or anything, but they certainly have their pluses.

Nimon said:

Read the emails I've posted to the Errata thread where Ross addresses this point. Assault Marines can gain Lightning Attack from the highest result of Ritual Duel Fighter.

Tarkand said:

I do like their Solo Ability (except that it's a shame they can't use cover any better than the next guy when in Squad Mode), but Seigecraft isn't really all that far from bad in my opinion.

HappyDaze said:

HappyDaze said:

Could you link this thread having trouble finding it, I did not know they ALREADY have errata for ROB. Truly though If I were GM you would be rolling on that table, not choosing your own.

> Rule Question:
> I have a few questions about Deeds. Many are about specific word choices that seem to go against what has been previously printed.
>
> 1) Initiate of Secrets (page 75) provides Forbidden Lore (Dark Angels). Is this an error - since no such Lore skill exists - or is it just a limited form of Forbidden Lore (Adeptus Astartes) and/or Forbidden Lore (Traitor Legions)? Regardless, it seems hard to advance (and possibly useless to do so) since both previously mentioned Forbidden Lore skills are on the Dark Angels Chapter Advances.

The correct skill should be Forbidden Lore (Adeptus Astartes), although Forbidden Lore (Traitor Legions) would also be appropriate at your GM's discretion.

> 2) Ritual Duel Fighter (page 77) grants Assault Marines a +1 on the roll, but the highest result grants them Swift Attack which Assault Marines gain for free at character creation. Should they be able to take Lightning Attack instead with the highest result on the table?

If the character already possesses Swift Attack, it should grant Lightning Attack instead.

> 3) Crusade Reinforceme nt (page 79) grants Talented (Forbidden Lore [Tau, Tyranids, or Daemons]). Aside from Daemons, wouldn't Tau and Tyranids both be covered under Forbidden Lore (Xenos)? The specific Lores again appear to be split-hairs that don't occur naturally in the game system.

The correct Talents should be Talented (Forbidden Lore: Xenos), or Forbidden Lore (Daemonology).

> 4) Archeros Salient: The Spectre of Vanity (page 79) grants Forbidden Lore (Witches) and Hatred (Renegade Marines). Is this supposed to be Forbidden Lore (Psykers) and Hatred (Chaos Space Marines)?

Yes.

> 5) Battle Damage (page 81) grants an additional armour history selection of choice. Can you a second history from the same table as one you've randomly rolled?

Yes.

> 6) Return to Duty (page 81) grants Forbidden Lore (Deathwatch). Since all characters have this skill at character creation, should it instead be raised to +10?

Yes.

> 7) Price of Victory (page 81) grants two best-craftsmanship cybernetic implants. Best is not a craftsmanship level in Deathwatch. Should these be Common, Exceptional, or Master? This Deed doesn't cost any xp (but does cost a FP) so two Exceptional or Master cybernetic implants seems a bit much for a starting PC.

It should be Master.

> 10) Right Gear for the Job (page 85) grants a limited version of Signature Wargear. One of the choices is best-craftsmanship Astartes Scout Armour. Best is not a craftsmanship level in Deathwatch. Should this be Common, Exceptional, or Master level of craftsmanship?

It should be Master.

Ross Watson
Senior RPG Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
[email protected]

I find IF kinda "meh" myself, and think they atleast should have evaluate in their advance table.

I will wait for official errata befor going off a second hand email, If that truly is the case I would call it broken and not allow it. At rank 1 getting something not normaly allowed until rank 2 and for half the cost?

But hey if your GM allows it, thats his bad, I have made some power mistakes in my day. We all had fun though so all good.

One thing though, you say you are trying for a more balanaced character, maybe tac marine might be better and just requisition a jump pack and take the pilot personal for 100. Get a nice mix of talents and skills that way.

Nimon said:

A Deed giving you a Rank 2 talent for a 300 xp saving is not out of line. Consider that a Tactical marine making the same choice starts off with a Rank 6 talent for a 200 xp saving, and a Librarian gets a Rank 3 talent for a 400 xp saving.

You don't like the email, fine. That's the way Ross communicates - he doesn't often post direct replies to board questions.

You pay 300xp to pick a result, instead of rolling. Why spend your only Deed to get a poor table result, or even risk it?

It's the fact that IF's Patterns grant nothing that can't be replicated by Talents that is probably the most annoying facet.

jareddm said:

HappyDaze said:

Actually, they can; the additional/expanded Solo and Squad mode rules in Rites of Battle (a fairly unfortunate two pages: a shame, as I was hoping for some more Oaths and Squad Modes) allow characters to employ Solo Mode Abilities in Squad Mode, costing 1 Cohesion for those that are Active (they need to be specifically activated, such as those of the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Storm Wardens and Black Templars Chapters), or for free for Passive ones (those that're "always on", such as Wolf Senses or Favoured Son). The Imperial Fists one fits into the latter category, I think.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

The IF Solo ability is Active. It thus costs 1 Cohesion to use it (I'm assuming to use it for one combat encounter, but the rules don't really say how long an 'activation' of this ability lasts unlike with other Actives). I'd have thought that this ability is Passive since it doesn't normally specify activating it nor that it only lasts a set amount of time.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Wait a second. A Blood Angel Assault Marine can no go Blood Frenzy and Feel No Pain now? Tell me this isn't possible, please.

Alex

'Fraid so. It costs a CP to trigger the Solo mode ability while squadded up, though.

IF from RoB are completely imbalanced, on one hand material for power gamer librarian on other hand rather unaccurate skills and FFS Eye of Venegance for 1k!!!

Eye of Venegance on early rank is game killer, if player will chose stalker boltgun and kraken rounds it will unbalance most of game. My experience.

+5WP, +5T much better

change Eye of Venegance for 2-3 cheap advances in sound constitution and its better.

now i started to fear what i will see when official rules for salamanders, raven guard, iron hands or white scars will be published.

I would have given the fists bolter drill on their chapter advance and changed their squad attack pattern to something else. Also, +5T +WP

nolsutt said:

This I agree with fully.

I'd also consider adding the 'appraise' skill.

Not sure that having a trapping that only gives you a bonus is one of your team-mates gets killed is the correct kind of motivation, either...

What is the max WS bonus you can pimp from their trappings?

Trade (Scrimshaw) is Ag or Int based skill. Trade (Any) +20 is available on the general SM advance table by Rank3 for a cumulative cost of 1400xp. Assume that you roll max for the appropriate skill stat and spent 3200-5250xp boosting it to maximum as well as a handy supply of bones (assume that you roll a 01 eventually).

Get a +1WS on each degree of success. Roll a "01" with a Trade (Scrimshaw) = 90, you get a +9WS bonus on your Ossific Relic, in addition to the other +3WS (xeno specific bonus) you get from your other relic.

Definitely a Librarian choice. They get Int cheap too.

I've finally just got RoB so I can see what the IF are like. I think their squad mode ability is pretty good. More situational than most, but you can use it in many fights and works for their Urban and Siege specialities. In fact, with seige quality cover around it might be too powerful maybe.

Not inspired by their stat bonuses though, for those who know no fear, knowing less fear seems like a waste in most situations, unless they are a Librarian. What they could have done is have Earther's have the +10 Wp and Necromunda, Inwit could have had +5 to Wp and Toughness. I'm not saying space Marines should have homworlds but a special case for IF.