Everything DragonWhimsy is detailing about FFG is very close to what I had expected from the time the game changed hands from DoW. Many players that were active on the DoW forums hoped that the shift to FFG would also bring more transparency to the further development of the game system (more on that next paragraph - pretty disingenuous to compare this game to Battle Cry rather than Memoir '44, Grubman ). I was hopeful that BL would be an exception, but am not surprised at all with the trajectory the game has taken since FFG took the reins.

I've got plenty going on in my life, no one needs to pity me that BattleLore at five isn't what I expected. I'll be fine However, the BattleLore I expected by year five is not a figment of my drug-addled imagination. That is the fault of The BattleLore Primer. As most anyone can see, quite a bit more suggested there than Battle Cry. The game outlined in the Primer is not the game that exists commercially at the moment. If we are still experiencing some speed bumps as that game does roll out - cool. If the direction of the game has changed and it is being racheted back down to merely a "boardgame" - cool as well. It would be good to know either way with some advance notice, but I am along for the ride wherever it may carry.

That is a fantastic primer I can see why everyone was so excited back then. I especially love the tone of "All the fantasy battles you had when you were younger but fitting your life today" which is actually what I was thinking when I went searching for a game and found BoW.

To be fair to both DoW and FFG nothing in that primer actually showed a long term vision for the game beyond there would be some sort of expansions. It really does stir the imagination however.

I wonder if perhaps the problem is that it didn't grab those former tabletop miniature gamers they flyer seemed to aim for and instead seemed to just grab board gamers? Unfortunately given its fantasy setting it would have done better if it could have attracted the former as they are probably more fantasy fans in that category.

It's other problem may have been it's generic setting. Fantasy gamers tend to like flavor. Did it lean too much in favor of the eurogamer?

Whatever went wrong for DoW BattleLore seems to have survived. I hope it continues to do so and hope for a new race. Dwarves and goblins aren't really my thing and knights are covered well by BoW. I'm really interested in what's next.

"What Went Wrong with BattleLore: The Untold Story of Why the #^@& DoW Suddenly Sold the Game to FFG" is an article I would love to read. By the time anyone is willing/able to tell, I don't know that anyone will care.

The Primer did what it was supposed to: stir the imagination. Early on DoW gave plenty of indication about the direction the game was to take, and additional races were a given. First step was to flesh out the Dwarf and Goblin armies. First grumblings from players about the piecemeal packaging. Heroes and additional races continued to be the talk, granted mostly from players, but plenty of "clues" from DoW to guide the conversations in that direction. After a few months of silence on what was coming next - poof, Scottish Wars appears. Not what anyone was expecting. More talk of Heroes - pictures of some of the figures are released (the same Rogue [on foot and mounted] that finally saw light of day when FFG released the expansion). Nothing spoken of for months, then vague talk of something new, followed by the ill-fated release of Troll and Country - a Creature and a Battle Map for $18. Not many are thrilled, many are confused. Gen-Con 2008 arrives, get to play an Epic game of Troll & Country with Richard Borg overseeing the proceedings, no indication that anything is awry. A few days later it is announced: DoW sells BattleLore to FFG.

Eh, bit of a jumbled post - being pressured by the rest of the family to procure food Love to talk more about this with any who are interested.

toddrew said:

Well, I don’t have the inside scoop or anything, but the logical guess suggests it had to do with money. If you look at the components of DoWs other games (Memoir 44 aside, which is obviously a hot seller), they are mostly die cut cardboard. The production cost of BL must be staggering (especially with all the pre-assembly). I’m guessing the profit from the game and expansions just weren’t making it worth while for them. The “shoddy” support toward the end probably implied that the line was in trouble and headed for its deathbed.

One way or another FF probably got wind of DoWs plan to kill or sell off BL (I’m sure people in the industry talk amongst each other about these things). FF probably figured with their mass production, distribution, and mainstream reputation that they could make the game profitable…something that may have turned out to be wrong (who knows).

I don’t want to be rude, but these game companies don’t really owe us anything. They put out a product and we buy it or not. We like it or not, but after the purchase it’s a done deal, we’ve gotten what we paid for. If they put out an expansion, we buy it or not. Again, done deal. When the game is no longer profitable or lucrative, they discontinue it in favor of something that looks more promising. This is how a larger, smarter company like FF stays in business. Love of a product leads to irrational business decisions.

Take a look at the majority of role playing game “companies”. They make financial blunders with their game lines because they love their product and they feel they owe things to their fan base. Some companies continue to support a game line long after it has become unprofitable. Most game companies also go bankrupt or go out of business, even the “big” ones.

MHO and observations. Sure, there are BL things I’d love to see…but I don’t feel like anything is owed to me simply because I love the game, and I certainly don’t take it for granted that I will see every product I think they should produce just because I think it’s a good idea (because I don’t work in the industry or see what the profit margins look like).

grubman said:

I don't take any of your comments as rude, and I hope you would say the same about me One can speak of it in terms of "being owed", I suppose - but not how I see it at all. For me, it is the knowledge that there exists an incredibly rich and playable gaming system but the game company that currently has command of it commercially seems unable/unwilling to provide it to prospective players. I would hope that a company acquiring a game would feel an obligation to attempt to produce it - otherwise why bother (wait, don't answer that , enough darker speculation has abounded ).

I enjoy every expansion and what it adds to the game (well, not Heroes so much, but I hope that is on me, and not the way it was produced, and still plenty of time for me to change there ), it's just a bit frustrating that the game's development has been shackled by a restricted and changing (speaking of the entire lifespan of the game to date, not just since FFG acquired it) release schedule with plenty of unaddressed prior expectation. I do not feel owed an explanation, though I do think it would make sense to provide one. It would be different if this game was being made up as it goes along. That isn't the case, though it does feel that way at the moment.

What I would like to know right now is, are the CtA cards for the Goblins, Dwarfs, and Humans a stop gap, or is that it? And if it is it, are those the cards that Richard Borg intended the game to play with? If the answers are: that's it, and yes, then I'll be able to move on, not waiting for the "real thing" to appear. I don't expect an easy answer to those questions, nor do I feel entitled to an answer. I could be very wrong about this, but I feel like I am in a very small minority of those that even care about those questions at this point

toddrew said:

I don't take any of your comments as rude, and I hope you would say the same about me One can speak of it in terms of "being owed", I suppose - but not how I see it at all. For me, it is the knowledge that there exists an incredibly rich and playable gaming system but the game company that currently has command of it commercially seems unable/unwilling to provide it to prospective players. I would hope that a company acquiring a game would feel an obligation to attempt to produce it - otherwise why bother (wait, don't answer that , enough darker speculation has abounded ).

I agree with this entirely - its like you plucked it out of my head. Its all out there already, we aren't owed it, but why not release it. Knowing there has been all this work done on the game already (and been playtested) but not being available seems a wasted opportunity.

toddrew said:

You and me both - I'd love to know as I am wanting to develop some of my own and want to know if this is what its supposed to be or is there other stuff that just isn't available yet.

I had included you in my imaginary minority, B&K