Hi folks,

i noticed that many people complain about the heavy bolter and full burst attacks. Many GMs told us that BBEG died within first rounds in heavy bolter full burst.

As I tested the number of hits during a full burst I noticed, that for BS100 the number of hits between 1 and 10 is evenly distributed. So with 10% propbability your Devestator marine gets his 10 hits during a full burst. So its very hard to plan encounters because you can not be sure how effective the Devestator will be. Your player will feel like god or like a loser many times. For BS70 (50 starting max +20 full burst) you have 30% miss chance (0 hits) and evenly 10% for 1 to 7 hits etc. So the problem stays the same for all BS.

I tested a new way to calculate the number of hits for a full burst. If you use MapTool or other dice rolling tools it is possible to roll many dice and get the results within seconds. In this case its possible to go for a more bionial Distribution. You check for each bullet of the burst vs. a BS-10*#bullets fired, i.e.

BS70: Roll vs. 70,60,50,40,30,20,10. Every time you make the d100 you get a hit. Than calculate damage normally.

Now the propabilities are 1,8% 0 hits, 11,3% 1 hit, 27,3% 2 hits, 32,2% 3 hits, 19,9% 4 hits, 6,3% 5 hits, 0,9% 6 hits, 0,05% 7 hits. Now the player and GM have a good chance to know how effective the character usually is. This change does not change the average number of hits per full burst, but distributes the propabilities so, that the worst/best effects do not have the same propability like medium effects.

Another positiv effect: If you fire a weapon with less than 10 bullets per full burst it gives you slightly better chances to get many hits. I.e. for BS70 you get 2,8 hits per full burst by heavy bolter and 2,7 hits per full burst by astartes bolter. So only the +5/6 more damage from the heavy bolter make a difference.

Any comments?

Max

max_rpg said:

In my expeience so far (on the table) the dev is consistently doing 5-7 hits, with the occasional "OMG he takes all 10 rounds!" or the "Curse my dice, he takes one hit!" and doing 25-30 damage with each shot. I find making the encounters more dynamic solves the problem without trying to rework the math- especially since in my experience the law of averages never seems to apply to actual dice on an actual table.

Your numbers seem okay, if that's what you're going for. Though based on RAW the Heavy Bolter should not only be doing more damage, it should be hitting significantly more times (ROF 10 versus ROF 4), which actually makes sense to me.

You are right - the average damage for a heavy bolter is 25,3 per hit (vs. AP 0 opponent). That are 19,3 average damage vs. a Daemon Prince ;-) I could not play DW - I do not have experience how uber the heavy bolter truely is. I only thought about changing to get more predictable results.

Max

max_rpg said:

For what it's worth, the biggest challenge I had with the uber factor was realizing that these characters are supposed to be a bit over the top. I was used to DH where the average damage was 10 with 3 shots or something similar. Once I got over that I felt much better about the state of the world.

Your math definitely would get more predictable results, I would just wonder if you want that level of predictability? If that's what you like (and plenty of people like a standard 'dps' style) I don't see any glaring flaws in your calculations.

max_rpg said:

Yes. When a Devastator rolls badly, he'll use a Fate Point (or Lead by Example) if the situation calls for it. Now with a second roll, that should modify your calculations significantly in the direction of the HB being overpowered. It makes the HB also more reliable as a Death-Dealer.

Also I have to say that against hordes and master-tier enemy BS 70 is unrealistic. Make that 100 to 120.

Alex

While the Heavy Bolter's damage output is incredibly high when compared to other starting gear, even next to such weapons as the Lascannon and Storm Bolter, I think that its high damage is almost entirely required in the framework of a Deathwatch game. Space Marines are over the top in many respects, but the opponents they fight aren't slouches either. In many cases if the combat doesn't end in four or five rounds, your Space Marines are out of Wounds and Fate Points.

With the highly variable damage of hordes(1-5 D10s + Static Damage/Pen) and the Tyrannids found in the available missions (Genestealers with WS 65 able to halve armor with 2+ degrees of success WS 75 on a charge) able to potentially one-hit a space marine in the first encounter of a chain, Deathwatch possesses a layer of tactical play that may allude some players. The Heavy Weapons teams in Final Sanction are an excellent example of this, as are the Genestealers presented in the same Mission.

While grabbing cover is the best bet against Heavy Weapons teams before pummeling them with Frag Grenades and Flame Templates, against Genestealers your Marines end up praying to the Emperor they dodge that Charge attack, or that you shank the roll. In a small team of Marines, a Dev Marine is crucial. While other characters strip the reactions from Genestealers, or lay Suppressive Fire on Ranged Hordes to prevent them from using the Full Auto action, its the Dev Marine that ends up being the Coffin Nail in these threats. This may make that Dev Marine appear to "shine" more than the other players, I think players quickly learn how important every role is on the Kill Team. While stripping dodges and laying suppressive fire are not as Glorious as defeating the enemy in a hail of Holy Bolter Fire, each action is essential.

I'll point out also that the Full Auto Burst action is not an "end all" either. I have on many occasions had a Genestealer with his 60 Agility and +10 Trained Dodge skill evade every round from Heavy Bolter fire.

In short, yes, Full Auto Burst is powerful, but without it your Space Marines will end up very dead very fast. Tyrannid units and hordes have proven lethal, unforgiven combatants, as I would expect every worthy adversary of the Adeptus Astartes to be.