Can you use Spectral Hands to make attacks?

By Mr Adventurer, in Dark Heresy

I mean the Minor Psychic Power on page 167 of the core book, naturally. The power doesn't mention making attacks specifically so I'm not sure, but you can manipulate objects with a Str equal to your WP; my Psyker has WP 50 so that's quite a bit of oomph.

I know the power has no effect on living targets, but what about throwing something (for example)? Or bashing a heavy object against someone or tipping something onto them, such as we have seen many times in the Star Wars fillms?

The power obviously excludes fine manipulation, but making an attack doesn't necessarily involve the same level of control as "typing on a dataslate, pulling the pin from another creature's grenade, pulling a trigger, and so on".

If you can use it to make attacks, what mechanics ought to be used for doing so? Seems like you might make a normal WS or BS check, but often Psychic Powers use WP instead.

Mr Adventurer said:

The power doesn't mention making attacks specifically so I'm not sure,

Although not specifically stated, it seems clear the intent is 'no'. You certainly can't make direct attacks on living creatures, and its probable that the power is intended to not be used for attacking.

That said...

Mr Adventurer said:

I know the power has no effect on living targets, but what about throwing something (for example)? Or bashing a heavy object against someone or tipping something onto them, such as we have seen many times in the Star Wars fillms?

...these are all possible, if you interpret the power that way.

Personally i don't. The power is used to 'push things over, pull levels, push buttons, etc.' For me, that does not include levitation, dropping things, etc. Also i see it as 'slow' force, rather than 'quick' force, so flinging things about isn't possible. So you couldn't pick up an iron bar and bash someone with it, and if you could, the force would be exerted as a strong 'pressing' rather than as a bashing.

If you could contrive a situation, say a bucket full of flaming promethium balanced over an entrance, you could push it over tipping the contents onto a victim beneath, but that would be about it for the attacking stakes.

However, personally i see no reason why it couldn't be used to 'pull the pin (or push the button)' on a grenade. I also see no reason why the force can't be applied to clothing and gear carried by a living creature (pushing a target over by exerting force on his armour, or pulling a rifle out of his hands (perhaps opposed WP vs. Str test, stopping the target using the weapon for a turn?)

Ultimately though, its quite vague and you as GM have to define the limits for yourself and your players.

That's a good point about it being a 'slow' force rather than a 'quick' one - that would prevent flinging attacks. There's still some mileage for pushing things onto people, though I disagree with what you say about using on people's equipment - that seems like a blatant dodge of the "no effect on living creatures" clause.

I always ere on the side of fun, so if a player can come up with a way to use a seemingly non-lethal power to make an attack I'll normally let them make the attempt. Such as . . .

Triggering a pressure sensitive explosive, such as a land mine.

Holding the target's boots to the floor, giving your team mates a chance to take a few shots at an immobile target.

Psychically grappling with an assailant's cybernetic limb.

I've allowed a player in the past to use it for grenade pin pulling, flinging sand in to some ones face, creating a minor dust cloud to give the players a chance to flee and for las weapons to be downpowered by a point for the guys shooting them through the cloud.

For any "Fast" of Fling type effects i've made them suffer a Fatigue point as well where they make a sudden mental outburst, which curtails and abuses of the power :)

Mr Adventurer said:

That's a good point about it being a 'slow' force rather than a 'quick' one - that would prevent flinging attacks. There's still some mileage for pushing things onto people, though I disagree with what you say about using on people's equipment - that seems like a blatant dodge of the "no effect on living creatures" clause.

Aye, you're right. gui%C3%B1o.gif

You could rationalise it away by saying that living creatures project their 'living presence' perhaps 6" beyond their skin which negates the effect of the Spectral Hands...

I just like the idea of using the power to 'push' a rifle barrle away while someone's trying to shoot...hehe...

Or untieing someone's bootlace

But as i said with these vague power descriptions its up to each GM to set the boundaries...

That's what Telekinesis and Precision Telekinesis are for. If you allow this power to do those things, then what is the point of those powers?

They do it faster and better?

spectral and cannot trigger explosive or manipulate grenade pins you need precision telekinesis for that. the ony exeption i see is mine if you bash one you spectral and you have chance to trigger it .

the explanatin come in 2 part a) in spectral and description: you cannot perform any action that requires precision, such as typing on a dataslate, pulling the pin from another creature s grenade, pull a trigger, and so on.

b) Precision telekinesis says exactly the opposite this is the skill you need for trigger explosive and take grenade pins

and like this the powers giving you the possibility tho hurt someone are push or psychic crush in telekinesis discipline