I'm not sure how to ask this, but here is a question about the "fictional world of the board game Arkham Horror". Has anyone ever put together a list of the AO from the game and described who they are, like in the wiki dedicated to Lovecrafts Cthulhu Mythos?

Lovecraft never used the term Ancient Ones to describe his creatures, this was obviously taken from the Simonomicon, Lovecraft called them the Old Ones. As far as I understand it the world of Arkham Horror is suppose to be a distinct version of the entire Mythos created by Lovecraft, an alternate version, as it mixes Lovecraftian and non Lovecraftian elements.

Do the expansion sets give more detail,as an example, as to who Shub Niggurath is in terms of the "Arkham Horror world" or are we meant to solely rely on what has been established within the entire Mythos, of both Lovecraft and non Lovecraft sources. Personally Id like to put together a wiki page that would explain who the creatures are, what the Mythos is, who the investigators are, all in relation to a fictional "Arkham Horror Mythos", if you will. This of course being slightly different to Lovecraft or any one source, a Mythos unto its own.

Obviously until I can get all of the expansion sets, Ill need some help, so anyone who would like to contribute some information on the AO's, Investigators, the world of Arkham Horror, please feel free to contribute. There is already an Arkham Horror wiki but its dedicated to the game aspect, whereas my idea would be in the way of, what if the "game" Arkham Horror had its own unique Mythos, just as if you were to describe the difference between Lovecraft's Mythos and the additions of other writers.

Or do you think the various expansions do a good enough job, I'm not sure how detailed the games get in terms of the creatures, investigators and thier origins, lineage etc.

Ive noticed that the board for Arkham Horror is structures differently from Lovecraft's description of the town, so as with everything else the towns unique onto themselves. I'm trying to straighten this out to make it easier to write some stories based on game play, which is my ultimate plan, as I mentioned some time ago.

Things Ive noticed so far:

All of the mythos creatures that you fight (Yig etc) all fall under the term of 'Ancient One" whereas in Lovecraft and other writers, they are broken down into Old Ones, Elder Things, Other Gods, Outer Gods etc. Technically Shub Niggurath for instance isn't an AO (Old One) but an "Other God" (or Outer God)

And as I mentioned above the towns are geographically different......your thoughts

Another thing I realized is that as an "Outer God" Shub Niggurath would be more powerful then Cthuthu who is only an Old One, wheras in the game we know that Shub Niggurath is not stronger (easier to defeat) then Cthulhu.

H.P. Lovecraft said:

To be honest, I have a worse record to Shub (4-3-1) than with Cthulhu (7-0-0). Not only that, but Shub has devoured 13 investigators (this includes losses), whereas Cthulhu has yet to eat anyone in my games. Though as a whole, I think the community has Cthulhu as slightly more difficult overall, but much harder to beat in Final Combat. I've only faced Cthulhu once, but that was Sister Mary in an OW encounter (and she kicked his butt). Him being actually harder (as the overall data seems to speculate) is because Cthulhu is the most popular of them all. That's what I chalk it up to. Usually if someone doesn't know HPL after they play Arkham, they ask "So is Cthulhu the hardest one?" This has happened on more than one occasion for me

As per your other stuff? Not entirely sure what your getting at, but yes, for the sake of mechanics, somethings are lumped together. It'd be SUPER confusing if you referred to AOs as different from GOOs and OGs, but mechanically they were the same. Solution? Just call them all the same thing. To be honest, this doesn't offend me as a reader of HP or anything, because, just like how things transfer from book to movie, or play to movie, or book to graphic novel, things MUST be changed from differing mediums.

As far as I know, none of the Investigators are included in any of HPL's books, or by any of his successors. Plenty of Allies, however, are from his works, and many of them have appropriate stats (including Houdini, which I find awesome). But there's not much said about the allies other than their effects on the game (their stats and what happens when you get them), and HOW you get them (like giving up a spell, offering a gate trophy, etc.). The investigators only give you their story on the back of the sheet, but also in the personal stories give you a bit more of a snippit. Though, you can also conjecture a bit more from their title, their stats (how much will? How much speed? that sorta thing), and their neat abilities. They're starting to get featured in the books FFG is putting out. Haven't read it yet (not even sure if it's officially released?) but it seems neat, and nice to see some familiar faces from the game!

The Ancient Ones, however, aren't talked about much in the board game, other than what their abilities are, what their cultists are/do, and such. There are some things that are gathered from expansions (Yog-Sothoth is mentioned in Mythos cards directly in several expansions). You can also draw some things from what OWs and markings are associated with AOs and monsters. Yog is the king of magic, so, naturally, witches, warlocks, and even Wizard Whately are circle monsters. Shub is queen of the hexagon monsters and the abyss. Ithaqua treds the cold plains of Leng, where Shoggoths, Elder Things, and others are from (and Leng is connected to Antartic, as well, as a nice nod to the story Mountains of Madness!). The City of the Great Race holds the Yith, as well as Cthonians, with Shudde M'ell ruling over the latter. Hastur rules over Lost Carcosa with his Yellow Sign, and I believe Byakhee are associated with him...? That's a guess though. Cthulhu rules R'lyeh, so all the + monsters from starspawn all the way down to Barnabas Marsh are associated with him. Some things are just from "other" dimensions, as described in stories, and that's where Hounds of Tindalos fall, as well as the Colo(u)r From Outer Space, thus having the square symbol. Celeno is a great library, but not without its dangers, of course, so it features some things like Star Spawn, and Fire Vampires.

Many of the OWs you can get some neat perspectives involving the cards that specify them. Many of them I've mentioned.

Overall, do things vary? Sure. I'd say about 75% of those are creative licensing due to it needing to be more board gamey. The other 25% is just regular creative licensing, I feel It doesn't go TOO far, though, I think. There's a lot left out, but PLENTY is hinted at through encounters, Mythos cards, game effects (Deep Ones Rising, Dunwich Horror, etc), encounters, and Other Worlds. Sure you have to put the pieces together sometimes, but with a willing mind, a lot of time, and the resources (aka, the Arkham Horror Wiki), you can compile everything for a more story-based adventure!

Not sure if I actually helped at all...or if I just rambled incoherently on several subjects. That's what I get for procrastinating...Cheers!

EcnoTheNeato said:

1. Actually that kind of makes sense even in terms of what we know from the mythos, Cthulhu is dead but dreaming and he can only influence man through their dreams, but once the stars are right and he is released he becomes very powerful, of course even cthulhu isn't the most powerful, even in Lovecraft's mythos.

2. I wasn't looking at it from the view point of it being offensive, or complaining that it should be more like Lovecraft or any other writers interpretation of what the mythos should be. Nor from the viewpoint of mechanics, basically what I'm saying is that, say there was no Lovecraft or August Derleth or any other source for the explanation of the gods, locations, people of the mthos, as we know it from Lovecraft etc. If we had to create a wiki page and describe these things in terms of the "game" as if it were not a game, if that makes any sense.

3. That would be the most difficult part, s their is not a lot of info on the investigators, but that could possible be remedied by the sheets, personal story thingies, and even those "case" thingamabobs

As far as the rest of what you said it is helpful

I don't think its necessary or even fair to claim that the board game is "a completely different mythos" just because it uses a standardized term like "Ancient One" instead of Old One, Outer God, etc. From a game design point of view it wold be confusing to give all the AOs their "technical" titles. Players would ask what the difference is between an Old One and an Outer God, they'd get confused about how to handle a final fight against different types. For FFG's purpose it was absolutely the right decision to invent a generic term to describe all the impossibly powerful entities who serve as "big bosses" in the game they're making.

Fluff-wise you can still call them by their proper names if it helps you sleep at night. Cthulu is still Cthulu. Shub is still Shub. If you want to write up a wikia page that describes the perosnal background of the investigators who aren't taken from existing stories (potentially all of them for all I know), that's cool. Highlight that these charcaters were created in a board game, sure. But if you go off and re-describe Cthulu I think a lot of people are going to wonder why you're repeating information that's available elsewhere as if it's new.

New material presented in the board game may not be canon mythos, but personally I hold the position that nothing penned by anyone other than HPL is canon mythos. It's still the Mythos, just "less official." Same deal for AH. That's my two cents anyway.

I have mixed feelings about non-Lovecraft Mythos material. I'd like it all to be canon, and HPL certainly encouraged it, but then Derleth took the Mythos in some weird good/evil elemental direction, and all I can say is

Ramsey Campbell's stuff is good—the stuff I've read so far anyway. So we'll see...

You all know that AH is based on the stuff published by Chaosium as Call of Cthulhu RPG, right? Because if you start looking at the cards it will become pretty clear that most of the stuff is clearly based on CoC. A handful of examples:

-Silver Twilight Lodge and Carl Sanford - nothing more than the Antagonists from the "Shadows of Yog-Sothoth" campaign (plus Sanford is no one else but Sandy Petersen, the guy behind CoC design)

-The Wireless Station on the Kingsport Head has encounters which reference characters introduced in "Kingsport: A City in the Mists", a background book.

-The map of Arkham used as background for the game baord is a copy of the Arkham map in the sourcebook about it.

So beside the simplifications most of the questions about the AH background can be answered by what Chaosium published for the RPG.

Id imagine its not "all' based on that, just like its not "all" based specifically on Lovecraft?

And I have a feeling there would be quite a number of differences, between the game, Lovecraft, and Chaosium, I could be wrong though, I don't know anything about the Call of Chthulu RPG game.

I agree I don't see it as totally different, I was just saying....if it were

So bad idea?

H.P. Lovecraft said:

Save for the necessary simplifications like that AO - GOO, OG etc. thing it's all based on the Mythos as depicted in the RPG. From unique items (Yithian Rifle) through allies (Ali Kafour) to monsters (the Bloated Woman) the CoC RPG has influenced a lot of AH content. Whatever wasn't taken directly from a story was taken from it.

Besides, Chaosium tends to define what's canon and what's not, at least for all those who don't have the time to create academic indices which track the connections between HPL and other mythos creators. And when you deal with an established literary setting created by more than one author it's your best choice. The game (RPG) is huge, and I mean really huge, it has the best in-depth depiction of the 1920s on the RPG market (in fact, it's one of the best depictions outside of the RPG genre too), it combines the whole established mythos into one system that clings tightly to HPLs original vision (no good/evil gods, no elemental affinities), and it saps your sanity too.

Well then scratch that idea

Though Im still going to do the Arkham Horror game play turned into storyline thing, at least then I can control what can be used, and whereever possible bring it back to Lovecraft, guess Ill just have to create my own version of the mythos, just as Lovecfraft himself encouraged other writters to do. Lovecraft/Arkham Horror etc.

Creating would take too much of your time. I'd say...adapt it where you must

Yeah thats what I mean, take the game, Lovecaft, other writers (when I have to) and make something out of it, although Ill probably change the names of the investigators. I scratched the idea above, but I am making a wiki for my game/story series.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MyArkhamHorror/Arkham_Horror:_Game_Play/Fan_Fiction

I hereby coin the phrase "Arkham Mythos" for my series of stories

List of beings within my mythos stories

Azathoth
|
__________________________________ _________________________________
| | |
| |
Yog-Sothoth

"Universal Boundry"

Nyarlathotep Shub-Niggurath

| |

__________________________________ _________________________________
|
"Universe"

Cthulhu (23rd Nebula 3,260 light years away)

| |

Hastur Yig
|
|

Ithaqua

THE ANCIENT ONES