I have a player that wants to build his marine as a stealth specialist/sniper. He's been looking at the scout armor, sniper rifle, and cham cloak. Would there be any reason for taking scout armor as a Deathwatch marine? I assume there is or they wouldn't have put it in the book...

In rites of battle there is better scout armour, for a Sniper Rifle I would take the Stalker Bolt Gun and Shells, Telescopic Sight.
Cameleoline Cloak is in Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy Core

Scout armour has no penalties for moving silently.

I forget if the sniper rifle has a renown requirement, if so I'd lift it for the player due to the concept. Could also perhaps go with a Stalker boltgun as well; very fitting.

Where is the stalker bolt gun? And I think they put the cloak in rites too, didn't they?

And my question about the armor was more whether or not the other battle brothers would look down on him for wearing scout armor, when he's fully capable of wearing full power armor.

Deathwatch 'kill teams' have a far wider remit than simply killing. they are often required for example to infiltrate an alien world, remain hidden for perhaps weeks and observe the aliens to gather intelligence, before returning to the report to the Inquisition on the alien's potential for exploitation or extermination.

The marines may then find themselves on a stealth mission to infiltrate an alien power station and steal some technology for study.

They may be required to employ their original scouting skills in sniping out a bunch of alien leaders perhaps?

There are many missions where scout armour will be preferable.

Of course if the marines assess the xenos threat as requiring extermination, its 'break out the terminator armour' time!

Seriously if you're playing Deathwatch as simply a series of combat missions you're really missing the potential and the fun of what the Deathwatch are about!!

Edit:

And my question about the armor was more whether or not the other battle brothers would look down on him for wearing scout armor, when he's fully capable of wearing full power armor.

Absolutely NOT!! Marines are the ultimate warriors of the Imperium. Deathwatch marines ore drawn from the elite among the marines. They will appreciate the skills of the scout-sniper as much as a tactical marine or terminator.

When selecting gear, a skilled Deathwatch marine should always 'select the right tolls for the job'. If assaulting a Space Hulk, the PC marines would perhaps suggest this 'scout' player would choose the right tools for that assault (power armour at least).

If on an infiltration mission they should all be in scout armour...

Stalker Pattern Boltgun is in the Core Book

WillisRBC said:

Choice of wargear wouldn't be something that would be looked down on unless it was a colossally poor choice for the situation, such as scout armor when assaulting a space hulk. The idea of battle brother hiding and striking out from concealment would be the thing that draws the ire of the most honor bound brothers.

Stealth tactics have never been something most SM's seem to like. Roboute Guilliman looked down upon how the Alpha Legion operated due to this and other of Alpharius Omegons operational practices. Within the DW even this shouldn't be a big deal to most battle brothers.

I think DW Marines are less conventional, they figth different battles than the "average" marine and while some would favour more traditional tactics most of them would understand that since they have no own scout compagnies some of them have to perform those duties.

Also with races like Tau and Eldar counter snipers are needed.

Though there will be few there will be those who specialise in the tactics normally only used by 10th company scouts...

With regard to the Deathwatch Scout Armor in RoB...

It has chest armor of 7. In the DW Core Rule book (p.160) it states that any armor providing 7 or more AP give a -30% penalty to Concealment and Move Silent tests. I don't recall any caveat exempting the Deathwatch Scout Armor from this condition.

PrimarchX said:

Astartes Scout Armour

Gives +10 Concealment and does not suffer the -30 penalty to silent move or concealment.

p163

Personally i'd take the 6AP and the scouting ability over 7AP.

I think we can safely assume that the Death Watch Scout Armour does not give a penalty to stealth or concealment, otherwise, what is the use of this armour?

Luddite said:

Well, standard Scout armor wouldn't incur the penalty since it's only AP 6.

I tend to agree that Deathwatch Scout Armor would be exempt from the AP 7 Silent Move/Concealment rule, too. But FFG should of written it explicitly. BTW, in the armor chart in RoB it lists Deathwatch Scout Armor as being AP 6.

We'll see an eratta soon, it would be silly...though I figure they won't get the +10% to Conceal and Silent Move

Acttually the fluff descriptor of the armor says it doesn't encumber or restrict the Marine. But it would be good if it said "exempt from AP 7+ penalty to Concealment and Move Silent" in the game mechanic descriptor where it says it has an AP 7 chest plate.

DW Scout armor has a bunch of goodies (like astartes power armor does) in RoB, as well as a non-renown required sniper rifle & Camo cloak.

As to others looking down on them, possibly, but that's a roleplay thing. Remember most chapters only field recruits in scout armor, while some (like space wolves... pretty much only space wolves) field full fledged marines in it as behind enemy lines assassin types.

Hmm, I just double checked the rules and by RAW it would have the negatives. I think that goes against the fluff of the armor and is something that I wish I had noticed during the playtest. *anger*

For my games I'll run it as AP6 most likely. Unless we get an official Errata that is.

Regarding the social acceptability of scout armour, I don't think it's that much of a problem, though the battle brother should obviously choose something more appropriate when it comes to slug-it-out missions.

I'd also disagree about the Space Marines' approach to stealth-based warfare. A Space Marine company will generally be outnumbered 100:1 or worse. Legendary stamina and powerful armor are one thing, but if you refuse to resort to styles of warfare that are less "in yo face!", the next few AP missiles are going to hurt. Space Marine warfare is mostly about going in, killing the stuff that hurts the enemy when it's killed and going out again. Whether the killing is accomplished with a sniper rifle or an assault cannon depends on the mission parameters.

Cifer said:

I think its also worth pointing out that Deathwatch doesn't have anything like the same remit or operate in the same way as the Chapter Marines.

Actual combat is only a small part of what the Deathwatch get up to. They spend much more time information gathering, observing, and assessing alien species. Their 'kill team' role is a relatively minor (but important) part of their activities.

Much of what Dark Heresy characters get up to should be the model for most of the Deathwatch activities, albeit focussed on aliens rather than heretics. They are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Xenos and as such are a part of (seconded into) the Inquisition, with all the responsibilites that implies. As the recovery and assessment of alien tech is also a key part of their activity, they also have a strong link with the Adeptus Mechanicus (it was the Deathwatch that captured and passed on the C'Tan phase swords for example).

Personally i'd see scout armour as the favoured option for most of their missions.

Back to the original question dealing with "looking down on scout armour"... even the Dawn of War game had a veteran marine in scout armour while the rest of his battle-brothers wore power armour or terminator armour. I don't think there is a doubt that Cyrus was their equal, if not better in other areas.

-Cynr

Well indeed. In fact it find the idea that any marine would 'look down on' any battle brother really quite odd. I see them as having a solid sense of brother hood where they consistently support each other.

If a battlebrother is struggling then his peers would support him, offer extra curricular training, etc. They would certainly 'compete to be the best', spurring each other on to greatness; and then would admire and aspire to those among them who excel.

Even inter-chapter rivalry i see as honourable sparring based on a wider brotherhood and respect.

I just don't see them being as petty as to 'look down' on a borther marine. Their scorn is entirely reserved for the enemies of mankind...

Cynr said:

Cyrus also served in the Deathwatch. COINCIDENCE?!

Cyrus also served in the Deathwatch. COINCIDENCE?!

As the Deathwatch is affiliated with the Inquisition: There is no such thing.

I'm new to the Role Playing World. After I heard about the Deathwatch RPG I went out and bought it INSTANTLY (this done only a few months ago). I' ma huge Warhammer 40k fan but I never thought about emerging into the RPG world... I was never into D&D or anything, but being a Space Marine sounds worth trying. So I only have the rule book and the master kit right now I plan on getting the rest of the DW stuff in time when I get the spare cash, but my main question is:

So scout-marine cannot be in the Deathwatch? So Cyrus from the DoW series was probably the only one who'd ever get that privilege then?

I created a character already that I was hoping to be a Scout from a chapter I developed that primarily uses scouts, but I then I realized I want to be as realistic to the WH40k universe as possible so did a little research. I read what you guys were saying and it got me thinking a little...

I eventually plan to collect the rest of the RPGs of the Warhmmer 40k universe so when I become good enough at this stuff I can cross over characters and bring real fun to the game. (My first experience wasn't very........ I don't know how to put it into words really... it sucked. My 2 brothers and I were all like O_o and o_O and stuff.)

Also that I have the thought in my head... Is there already specs on a sniper rifle? If so which book can I grab those from cause as of right now I had to make my own up and it seems decent, but again I want to make a better experience for my next try at this and want things to be close... I wish I could find a GM for WH40k RPGs in my area cause I don't know what I'm doing really :/

Help me please T-T

@XenoNecross

Well, first, yes, technically, any "in training" scout would generally not be considered for seconding for Deathwatch.

You mentioned Cyrus from DoW2, the easy explanations I see for that is two-fold:

1. Cyrus is a veteran scout seargent. He is in the scout company not as a recruit, but as an instructor. Technically, he would be a fully implanted space marine (black carapace and all), he would be able to equip power armour. A marine of this level could indeed be selected for the Deathwatch

2. Its also possible that at the time of his seconding, Cyrus was serving in another company, and not as a scout (teaching in a scout company is a calling one can be assigned to I believe)

So in your case, it would be valid to say the character is a veteran scout. It would fit best with a tactical marine taking bolter mastery (or really any other variant can work too, except maybe the more specialized librarian/apothecary/techmarine), and use signature wargear to acquire a stalker pattern boltgun or sniper rifle (although stalker pattern does have renown reqs).

The big thing really is that are you trying to make a scout thats in training, or a scout that is finished with the training and serving in the scout company as an instructor/actual scout?

If the goal is to be in training, then about the only explanation I could see is that the individual is exceedingly talented, but in some fashion doesn't work well in the chapter as a whole. This really doesn't work too well, alot would take GM discretion.

Standard astartes sniper rifle is in the core DW book. Rites of battle has a second option, its slightly heftier.