steveg8tr said:

Ah, but note that acrobat will not let you activate a glyph or pick up a chest occupied by a figure, so acrobat would only let you get cash...

Dipso said:

It will let you activate a glyph.

You just won't be able to 'glyph out' the same turn (you wouldn't even if there was no monster on the glyph anyway), which means the runner has to survive a turn, or its a suicide mission (which is why good runners are mostly only worth 2CT - less than the 3CT for triggering the glyph).

A really fast runner can use a knockback weapon (hammer from the shop), an Advance action or Feat (or Runner/Koll's Mark if SoB) and a fatigue potion to get at a chest anyway - until the OL starts putting his large monsters on the chests at least (if he has any).

Basically there are endless permutations of counter and counter counter, and a large part of the meta-game dynamics is working these things out.

Mythgarr said:

Indeed. Or kill (most or all of) them on turn 1.

Check out my (long) post in this thread on BGG. That will help you get some ideas around kicking arse hard on turn 1 in a dungeon level, which minimises (or eliminates) the counterattack potential. They don't work in every dungeon level, but there are three examples there of really maximising resources.

I read your write up and would not consider the party to be either average or new.

The skills you got on all heroes are good and have synergy between the character and treasure. Getting 4 treasures let alone good treasures takes time, so if the parties were new thats quite a bit of luck involved.

In my experiance Sometimes you do get dud characters and you can choose to start over. Sometimes you get decent characters but dud skills on one or 2 of them, do you choose to restart again? At what point does random not really become random

Other than that its a good read on blitzing a dungeon

apbevan said:

As noted, those were properly 'random' heroes and skills, except I think maybe I redrew (entirely) the skills until someone got Leadership, just so there was a 'leader' (actually I don't recall doing that, but it is very coincidental to get leadership 3/3 times). So one good skill was (maybe) guaranteed, but not necessarily on the best hero to have it on. The treasures were not entirely random, but then the aim was fairly extreme and it was only 1 treasure each! I think I also made an effort to use completely different treasures as well, so not just the 'good' treasures repeating for each party.
Getting 4 treasures can easily be achieved within the first 2 weeks. 5-6 treasures is more likely if the party isn't unlucky with an encounter of dungeon draw.
Note that these parties 'cleared' the dungeons, more or less - the stated aim was to get everything (cash, treasure, CT) possible with minimal-no loss and complete the dungeon to advance to the next level. The best way to get minimal loss is to kill everything before it can attack you. Sometimes that requires creativity, or adapting tactics to make use of strengths and avoid weaknesses.

Those parties were certainly not 'good' parties.
The first has no Ranged hero and neither melee hero has either 3 trait dice or a damage increasing skill. In other words it is weaker than average in two of three combat disciplines.
The second has three 'average' heroes in Karnon, Andira and Glyr (though Andira's Spiritwalker is luckily just the right skill to transform her into a 'good' hero) and only 1 'good' hero. Able Warrior is a totally crap skill (it literally does nothing for Glyr as if he battles and spends 2F he gets the same result, but it could improve and the other options were probably brawler, berserk and a ranged specialist skill). Admittedly Karnon is least weak, perhaps even relatively strong, at the very start of a campaign.
The third has Shiver and Mok, two awful heroes, and again, no ranged hero. Aura and Water pact are both rubbish skills, though at least they are not dragging down good heroes. That's a really bad party right there. Again, it's weaker than average in 2 of 3 combat disciplines

Not Random would have been something like Tahlia w Leadership, Landrec w Quick Casting/Spiritwalker/Prodigy, Kirga w Master Archer and Ronan w Acrobat.

So I definitely consider these parties to be 'average' - in that they are not 'good' and are fairly representative of parties that didn't get that great draw.
Obviously with 4 treasures they are not 'new', but they are clearly with the first 3-4 weeks of a campaign - before either side has had an opportunity to properly 'level up' at all.

I would disagree with your statement that the first 2 parties are not good. To have a good party you don't need the most powerful combinations for all characters.

The first party has 2 good mages with good skills, the best runner who benifits greatly with a doge order and a melee that always gets 2 attacks on the move

The second party has Karnon who is an early powerhouse with his Dragontooth Hammer, Spiritwalker Andria with an easy to achieve pierce 2 breath template, Glyr because of his skill is average and Ronin is average.

I enjoyed the blitz read but I guess we have different opinions of average and good.

Im sorry if I implied your parties were not random. I was making the comment about restarting having more to do with the OP's starting party and how most posts say that its his party that is the problem. Some parties do suck so at what point do you restart or stick with it was my question.

apbevan said:

We certainly do. Of the 4 you mentioned, I disagree with your assessment of 3 of them!
Each to his own...