One factor I always think gets ignored with Marines is the fact that they don't really need to sleep or rest, just re-arm.

Combined with their mobility, this means that even a small force of Marines can conduct a strike against a dozen major military targets anywhere on a planet inside a 24 hour period, if they're equipped with orbital strike vessels like Thuderhawks or Stormravens.

THIS is what really makes them so lethal. The fact they can go virtually anwhere, combined with the only restriction on their combat operations being the amount of ammo they can carry .

Lightbringer said:

That's a little more dependant on circumstances such as whether or not you have orbital supremacy, anti aircraft defences, available of Thunderhawks (most chapters won't have Stormravens) and if you are defending ground targets. Which is why ground based mobility is still important I guess.

Arriving at a completely enemy held planet which no enemy starships, limited defences is pretty much the ideal situation for Space Marines. Dropping on targets and only the time it takes to extract and redeploy them. But once they have destroyed the command, communications and strategic points they still have to scour the planet clean of the enemy.

So again, they become much more effective when combined with other forces. When your IG are holding the ground positions, taking the less defended objectives, spliting their forces, stopping the the movement of troops. All so that your elite forces can pick them apart one after the other in short order and leave the Guard to mop up the leaderless forces.

True. Obviously a heavily defended world with massive orbital defences is going to make things more difficult for the marines, but planetary assaults are, after all, their speciality!

One imagines drop pod assaults (as they're so hard to intercept) would be used against orbital defence facilities, clearing "safe" regions of sky through which more wide-ranging assaults by thunderhawks and other ships can then be launched.

These follow up attacks would probably target high-value targets like command bunkers, army staff headquarters etc. One imagines the Marines would be able to deliver dozens of these attacks with a 24 hour period if they had a full company at their disposal.

Once the enemy command and control system is in disarray, they would then have the run of the world. But yes, you're right, unless the planetary population is quite small, the marines would still be quite reliant upon Imperial Guard forces to actually hold ground...unless the marines are from a particularly ruthless chapter like the Fire Hawks or Charchoradons who are perfectly happy to just wipe out everything (civilian or military) in their path.

However, how often are Space Marines dropped when they don't have orbital supremacy? I wouldn't have thought the ships would have been able to get into position to pod/drop-ship the Marines in without having at least local orbital/aerial supremacy.

Orbital supremacy isn't always guaranteed, even with potent space marine fleets. The marines seem to rely upon the decapitation strike tactic - hittting the planet's rulers first - which could theoretically involve pushing through still-active orbital defences to deliver assault marines to the ground.

Even if you have orbital supremacy, that's very different from supremacy on the ground, and no guarantee of success. As I recall, the Siege of Vraks was an example of an attack upon a world so heavily defended that even orbital attacks weren't guaranteed to work due to the massive defences around the Citadel of Vraks. At least 5 chapters (Red Hunters, Dark Angels, Red Scorpions Angels of Redemption, Grey Knights) were involved in the siege at one stage or another, and they didn't have the ability to strike within the Citadel until towards the very end of the siege.

Certainly any of the table top games assume that you don't have full control of the near space unless you are attacking a heavily defended planet. The upshot is that you might have poded onto the table and hit the enemy with an orbital lance attack but your opponant can also teleport in his chaos terminators and obiliterators. In the IG codex the Fleet Attache character's entry assumes that he has support of the navy but it's too hot for the navy to get close enough for pinpoint attacks like the marines can. It's a difficult question and raises questions about the whole point of being large land battle so there is a bit a handwaving.

But yes the problem being that unlike air supremacy, where you have a limited area, limited number of place to take off and land and service ceiling space is infinite. Are the ships going get destroyed in orbit or are they going to pull back from the planet and if they do? How far do you follow before you aren't attacking the planet again. And once you've seen them off do you start wiping out the ground defences from space while the enemy fleet can attack you at the same time. Especially as a SM strike cruiser. You are tasked with getting them into a fight, it's far better to make dash to a point where you can deliver the troops and pull back rather than risk loosing the whole company in a protracted space battle.

Fun question: How many Space marines would it take to clear out Commorragh?

guest469 said:

11

5 if they're Space Wolves.

Those get anything done. Just look at the Road to Gathalamor.

1! Mephiston!