How long have the Kroot been in the expanse? How long does it take a Kroot kindred to "evolve" differently?

If they popped in through the Jericho Reach gate, they've been in the Expanse for at least 70 years.

The pace of their evolution depends largely on the whims of the Shaper. There's fluff that mentions rapid changes after eating chaos-tainted flesh, but I wouldn't expect it to be less than a couple of decades.

Errant said:

I think they popped into the Expanse via Zone 15 in the Passage.

Errant said:

What is the source for that? Ive been looking through the core book, through Into the Storm and through the timeline and have found nothing.

Fortinbras said:

Zone 15, I remember reading about that. Cant remember, is that Into the Storm or Edge of the Abyss?

Errant said:

Hmmm what if they have no shaper with them?

Say they were abandoned by a Rogue Trader who hired some as mercenaries. After their mission was complete, he disarms them (however this may be accomplished, its purely backstory) and maroons them isolated in a jungle/swamp area of a planet. sort of like a nature reserve but in the midst of an otherwise "Cursed Earth" environment (a oasis in the Ash Wastes or Scav-Zone) and the kroot survive for a few generations off the local flora a fauna, with their primary meat staple being each other and swamp eels, snakes and leeches.

Essentially the goal is to have them regress to feral kroot with some traints evolved from eels and leeches (chameleon skin, electric shock, slimy skin, amphibian traits).

Peacekeeper_b said:

The Deathwatch Core Rulebook, should be 70 years ago the Imperium discovered the Warp Gate, since then its guarded by the Navy and the AdMech, so it would have been very diffcult for a Warsphere to sneak through the gate undetected.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Edge of the abyss and it is put forward as a theory only.

As opposed to something more concrete? I don't own Deathwatch but it's the only explanation I've ever seen offered on these forums.

Fortinbras said:

I was just pointing out that they had not come up with anything definite. Most likely they intend to either leave it up to the GMs or to expand on it later.

As a note however they do mention this sector 15/well of night in both edge of the abyss and into the storm, and not in an introductory manner. Almost as if they expect me to have read about it somewhere else, maybe it is detailed in one of the adventures (which I don't have).

Or I could have just missed it I guess, anyone know where it is from?

Shapers are a kind of shaman and as such it is possible they are born, not made. Much like psykers amongst humans are born that way, and usually develop their powers through various life trials and some training from experienced elders. As such it's possible for the kroot to get a shaper without having an older one, but obviously it'd have to live with 'on the job' training.

Kroot evolution can be very quick, with major changes happening in a generation, and smaller changes occuring in newborns almost as fast as the shaper can figure out what traits he wants the kindred to gain. There's bits of fluff where kroot fighting in toxic enviroments have come out of the conflict very well adapted to those conditions, and similar scenarios. Though it seems that more esoteric abilities such as warp based powers, psionics, instinctive knowledge, and so on take more time to become part of their genes.

It took a while for them to acclimate the ork's natural skill with technology. There's also a kindred mentioned in Edge of the Abyss that has spent a few centuries working towards the ability to phase in and out of the warp. One of their shapers has finally managed to do so, but it's very limited for now.

Worth mentioning kroot purposefully keep themselves in a low tech state as a tradition in order to prevent them from becoming weak and 'civilized' . So being marooned on a planet might not really inconvenience them to much unless it was excessively hospitable. I imagine that without a shaper they'd naturally begin to develop adaptations for survival within a single generation. In a really harsh enviroment they might adapt even faster, provided enough live to actually procreate.

If you can run it down white dwarf 262 had an article on Kroot, their history, physiology, and why they don't make use of a lot of technology in their daily lives.

llsoth said:

The "Well of Night" IS the Location of the Jericho Warp Gate from Deathwatch. So yes the Kroot came via Sector 15 and yes they came via the Warp Gate, they're the same.

It's also entirely possible that they arrived by other means than the warp gate. Perhaps they found a webway portal or another gate that let large numbers of kindreds migrate swiftly back and forth. Or perhaps they've just been drifting across the galaxy so long they finally reached the other side.

Unless the well of night was active at some point before the DW timeline begins then it'd be hard for the hundreds of thousands (possibly more) of kroot in the expanse to have come through it. Each warsphere carries a considerable population and the books mention them as if there's a fair number of such vessels plying the expanse.

I beleive this is one of those mysteries left up to the GM to decide on rather than giving a 'canon' interpretation. As such I personally go with their being another gate the kroot know of that leads from the Koronus Expanse to a dead star that the kroot keep finding their spheres drawn to.

George Labour said:

Following the DW-Rulebook the AdMech' Estimation of the time the warp gate went active again is 397.M41, the gate itself was dicovered 755.M41, so there's plenty of time to pass through it undetected.

Edge of the Abyss states, that most of the Kroot have no idea that they're on the other side of the galaxy, making it unlikely that they have any kind of stable connection home.

You're right in saying there's no DEFINITE canon explanation, but the facts in edge of the abyss combined with the location of the warp gate makes it a very strong option. Besides i like the Kroot as free mercenaries, lost in the expanse, without any means of getting back home.

BattleSphere Krootactica?

Now there's a campaign idea. A kroot warsphere is ready to make the pilgrimage back to Pech to spreads its new gene traits amongst the other kroot. Problem is, they don't know where they are and have only vague myths of a 'divine gate to new hunting grounds' to go off of.

George Labour said:

You forgot the part where they are being hunted down by the Aduptus Mechanicus.

llsoth said:

Necrons. With six Pariah models and five originals inside the Sphere.

Fortinbras said:

Funny Idea, but no the exact opposite. Its the part that they're not trying to reach home, kindda strong militant tribes, without a permanent home, readily fighting for everybody with enough money/weapons/ressources. Gives them a feeling a little akin to a barbarian tribe around the fall of rome.

So Shaper's Slammers or The Seven Krootarai?

So I was thinking of reducing their INT, removing their weapons (other then knives, spears and axes) and to represent their additional evolved traits give them Eel shock (counts as Luminen Shock), Resistance (Fatigue Tests for Luminen Shock) and Chameleon (Treat as Chameleoline cloaks).

I wouldn't reduce their intelligence even if you want them to be extremely feral and low tech. Kroot are pretty feral and barbaric as is, and a high intelligence is what can make them really scary to those that encounter them. Primitive and savage doesn't need to equal stupid.

Remember, they choose to live in a near stone age state. Back on Pech there are ruins of massive cities they once lived in, but they decided that kind of life just made them weak.

Maybe make them a bit more backwards than other kroot, with only a bare minimum of language and a lack of things like personal decorations and obvious craftworks.

The adaptations you want to give them seem fine though. Heck if you do it right you could even permit a PC kroot with those traits.

I was also leaning toward Bestial, but dont like the notion of them being frightened away by lighters, flashlights and cherry bombs.

Thinking perhaps Frenzy.

I was leaning toward the lower INT because they are devolving intellectually since their primary food source are eels and chameleon leeches. Plus they are inhabiting a jungle/swamp that is overgrowing a chaos temple.

Peacekeeper_b said:

In the Deathwatch Core book, there is a set of traits targeted at Tyranids called Instinctive Behavior(Tyranid) p132. By simply ignoring the Tyranid aspects of the traits they are a simple way to define a creatures behavior. The three options being Feed, Lurk, and Stalk define a general behavior type very well and are easy to follow and give a primitive, animal feel without making them as skittish as Bestial would.