Hello,

after playing Bionic Command and thinking about the upcoming Deus Ex 3 I thought how to integrate this topic into the WH40k univers.

Maybe an Inquisitor together with / or a Tech Priests who thinks that the Space Marines need some improvement. Humanity has somehow mastered the biological implants. But now, with the technology of the Tau it would be possible to augment the Space Marines additionally. The next generation.

So maybe the motivation is somehow with good intention, since humanity can need every help it can get. But to 'touch' the sacred Space Marines is heresy at its core.

What do you think?

Cheers,

TechVoid.

HERESY!

You are implying that the Emperor did less than the best possible job when he created his Astartes. That a mere Inquisitor and an obviously deranged Tech Priest know better than He on Terra.

I like it....

...more for the colossal bungle, assault, exterminatus, and cover up that it lends itself to bringing about.

I would tend to lean toward the Astartes, as is, are the pinnacle of what can be achieved on a mass production scale, even with Dark Age tech. Anything else stats to look like Fabius Bile type of augmentation. You could always go with your Inquisitor or the Tech Priest uncovering some of Bile's work and trying to implement it, that could be interesting.

Augmetics are not exactly uncommon in the Imperium, and the Astartes have access to all the coolest toys in the sandbox. Even so (and particularly in the Deathwatch) I somehow doubt that implanting one of the Emperor's sacred angels of death with Xenos technology would go over well. In other words:

HERESY!

Actually, of all of the branches of the Imperium, with the possible exception of Inquisitors, I can't think of a better group than the Deathwatch to use Xenos technology against its creators. Deathwatch is allowed a great deal more versatility and flexability in terms of the weapons and tactics they're sanctioned to use. Far more than any other organization in the Imperium. Who better to test xenos augmentics than the xenos experts?

jareddm said:

A fair point, I think there are at least a handful of examples of converted xenotech in the DW armory. Though shooting a xeno gun or using xeno armor is one thing, implanting yourself with some xeno stuff is a different story. Could make for an interesting RP opportunity provided the player and character wasn't too far into either end of the puritanical/radical specturm.

Could make for a good bit of game whether it's 'good' or 'bad' (or up to the players to decide).

HERETIC!

NEVER INFECT THE PRIZED WEAPENS OF THE ADEPTUS ASTRATUS WITH THE FOUL XENOS!!!!!!!!

BURN HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But my serious opinion follows

No space marine would ever beleive that incorpeating xenos into his weapen is 'good'

They prize their weapens like their children. Plus the impreium have got it in their heads that the xenos is evil (which i agree, FOR THE EMPEORER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

and the adeptus astratus is deffinately no exeption they would see in as disgusting.

so, yeah kinda heresy.........................................................

somthing i forgot to mention maybe imperials on the radical side may see this as acceptable ( their the ones that use the enemys weapens against them right?)

mjbarrett said:

Could easily see a Radical Inquisitor aiding in something like this. Possibly even a Xanthian cabal of some sort created for this very purpose.

mjbarrett said:

Yet they do use xeno tech. See page 166.

Alex

mjbarrett said:

Honestly, I do not talk about simply using or implanting xenos technlogy.

Like above said I talk about the concept of a new Space Marine, build up with additional augmentics.

Futhermore I do not think that new initiates have much freedom about their personal view of good and wrong. In some hidden laboratories new recruits get their believes 'indoctrinated'.

And if you say that the Deathwatch is very open in using xeno technology, at least against xenos, they may personally fit.

Some Inquisitor has the opinion that drawing the members from different chapters takes too much effort. They should work together more closely. Like the Custodes or the Grey Knights it is time that the Ordo Xenos gets its own Space Marines. Specialy built up with some augementations in addition to the implants ... since the flesh is weak!

Maybe this Inquisitor can convince some high ranking officers that his idea creates a more effectiv Deathwatch Team, better Soldiers, faster and more resistant ... since the flesh is weak.

And in secret some laboratoy is built and the first Augmented Space Marines are created.

Cheers,

TechVoid.

A good setting for your Idea would be the Planet of Phyrr in the calaxis sector , it is considered a death world, but in the description it says the Tech-Marines have a facility there because of the rich potential for it's bio-tech department. The planet is in the Creatures Anethema.

Nimon said:

Thanks,

I'll have a look at it.

Cheers,

TechVoid.

If there's aliens stuff and bionetic implants to be tested, other test beds would be used. The Imperium has a long record of trying to replicate the successes of the Astartes with bio-engineered soldiers, clones and that kind of thing. They're always inferior to actual Astartes. Likewise, the A-M has its engineered shock troops as well, but for all of Man's solutions, nothing comes close to having a bit of the big E in you!

Deathwatch demonstrably use xenos tech already, so it's not much of a push to have them adopt some more. Plus: I have more than a couple of old SM models with shruiken catapults!

Siranui said:

Interesting, where can I find some information about that issue?

Cheers,

TechVoid.

The Horus Heresy Novel Legion describes an imperial guard regiment comprised of genetically enhanced soldiers.

Can't remember their name. The grunts are all genetically enhanced muscle type guys, possibly clones or at least vat-grown.

All officers are from outside the regiment and for their leadership qualities.

I think there is a short mention that the Emperor used they same vat growing technology to create the thunder guard (Proto-spacemarines) during the unification wars on Terra. This technology was later greatly expanded for the Astartes project.

Flargius said:

Not quite.

You're thinking of the Geno Five-Two Chiliad, an Imperial Army regiment who themselves were a remnant of forces that fought during the Reunification of Terra. They weren't genetically-enhanced in the same sort of way as the Astartes (though apparently they were part of the inspiration for the Emperor's genetically-enhanced warriors, a project which developed into the Custodes and eventually saw the creation of the Primarchs and the Astartes), but rather a form of eugenics, selectively breeding desirable traits into each generation of warriors (hence the requirement that senior officers be outsiders; a frequent influx of new genetic material keeps the regiment's gene-pool from stagnating) rather than using implants and artificial organs.

TechVoid said:

Hmm...actually i'm not sure what you are asking here?

Are you saying that the Adeptus Mechanicus Biologis is willing to develop new bio-augmentations to the Space Marine geneseed?

Given that each chapter must tithe 1/10th of their seed at regular intervals to the AdMech for 'monitoring' i see no problem with this. I'm sure the biologis would be more than willing to look at improvements. However, in 10,000 years, they haven't succeeded . Indeed, most chapters have actually seen some form of corruption or degeneration of their geneseed.

So i'd suggest that while the AdMech is willing to do this, they seem to lack the skill. This is perhaps Dark Age technology that they are condemned to simply try and maintain rather than improve. Now of course if some Techpriest could rediscover the neccessary techniques to restore and improve the geneseed (STC template? Not sure..) that would be an exceptional advancement. An Imperial-scale advance!

Something which is against the themes of 40k, which makes me ask 'why are you playing 40k if you don't want to explore the themes'?

On that issue though, its your game and if you think that'd be a cool thing to happen, go for it!!

If you are saying the AdMech would incorporate xenos tech or genetics into the space marines, i'd say a massive NO! Even if the AdMech did it, the space marine chapters wouldn't accept it, and would likely stop their tithe to the AdMech and unite to eradicate this heretek that has polluted their pure genetic material with foul xenos filth.

As for the use of xenos technology, typical chapters are unlikely to do so. They certainly wouldn't incorporate it into their weapons and armour (honour thy wargear, etc.)

It is the purpose of the Deathwatch however to identify and investigate xenos breeds. where they are not a threat or possess material that will benefit the Imperium, their job is to bring that xenos loyalty, or technology into the Imperium. Where it is jugded to be too threatening, then they break out the bolters and go 'kill-team' on these alien scum.

I'd say the Deathwatch are happy to use alien tech, but even they wouldn't pollute their sacred wargear by for example using a xenos modification to alter their bolter. HONOUR THY WARGEAR.

Use a shuriken catapult? Fine.

Adapt a bolter to fire shuriken ammunition. Never!!

N0-1_H3r3 said:

They weren't genetically-enhanced in the same sort of way as the Astartes (though apparently they were part of the inspiration for the Emperor's genetically-enhanced warriors, a project which developed into the Custodes and eventually saw the creation of the Primarchs and the Astartes), but rather a form of eugenics, selectively breeding desirable traits into each generation of warriors (hence the requirement that senior officers be outsiders; a frequent influx of new genetic material keeps the regiment's gene-pool from stagnating) rather than using implants and artificial organs.

My mistake. I meant to say genetically engineered. The regiment is built around a bloodline of females called Uxors. They have there eggs harvested at puberty. From them the soldiers are vat grown, using the genetic codes of several proven, robust agnate gene-pools notorious for their martial merit. They keep their gene-pool clean by importing smart proven commanders from outside.

So no enhancements, just selective genetics and vat grown soldiers.

Back to the original thread. Wasn't the sonic attack wielded by the traitor Emperors children in the Fulgrim novel incorporated into the legion from a xenos source? When confronted with this Captain Saul Tarvitz was horrified by Fabius Biles attempt to alter the work done by the Emperor, which by extension is perfect.

The entire notion that one could improve something achieved by the Emperor is heretical.

Still I'm sure someone, in their arrogance/desperation attempts it once in a while.

I think for it to be a project sanctioned by Mars, any alterations on the space marine geneseed ought to be based on STC discoveries or equivalent in significance.

Other than that I pretty much agree with everything Luddite just said.

Ah, thanks for the input and the comments concerning the WH40k Theme.

It simply comes to my mind as a plot-hook or entire campaign. I mean, I look at our Tech-Marine and see him upper tough with his The Flesh is Weak Talent and immunities or additional grafts.

And this together with - I like the idea more and more - the wish of some high ranking Inquisitor that the Deathwatch needs its own elite unit like the Ordo Malleus and thus creating some new Space Marines right from the sketch, like the Grey Knights, I think this may be an interesting opponent.

I agree that the WH40k setting is helt is stasis and for that reason every change or improvement is called heresy ... so I guess that reason alone makes it worthy mission.

I am working on that for my next game.

Cheers,

TechVoid.

I think it's a fantastic idea...

... for a Radical Campaign in Dark Heresy.


... or someone to uncover and expose in a regular Dark Heresy campaign.


... or someone to hunt down, destroy, purge, burn, sunder and utterly annihilate in a Deathwatch campaign.



... but a good idea nonetheless. Just remember that any Magos or Inquisitor (or Marine) worth his salt would instantly try and have the person who attempted that killed (or worse!).

BYE

Deathwatch already *is* an elite unit, surely?

Siranui said:

There is always a 'next generation' or as Qui Gon Jinn said it: "There is always a bigger fish!"

Honestly if everybody in the whole WH40k universe would be satisfied with the status quo or his / her current position there wouldn't be any adventure or mission at all.

Cheers,

TechVoid.

About Empire technology level, empire have forgoten more about tech then tau will ever know.

If u want to create even more super SM with funny deus ex bionics and stuff i would suggest some Radical Heretek and old rediscovered technology from before emperor times. Something that will put AdMech in very hard position, better than Emperor would do... its enough to start big home war, Admech vs Rest of empire.

H.B.M.C. said:

That's a great Idea...

The Kill team could be dispatched to assist an Inquisitor who turns out to be a radical (possibly too radical) who has been experimenting with augmenting Space Marines from the Deathwatch or another chapter. This could have gone wrong resulting with some nasty adversaries as they try to shut down the project.

More likely Xenos Hubrys