Ok, here's a break down of what is in the book... I'm actually pretty impressed at how much stuff is in there 0_o... the book is jam packed with stuff!

I also wonder at some of their call on 'elite' vs 'master' - granted, a Carnifex is pretty dumb, but good luck killing one without some kind of tank... it's certainly much mightier than a single battle brother! And some of those Master level opponent (looking at you Chaos) are downright insane.

Some of the stuff in this book is downright nasty as well... if you felt the game was too easy for your players, well, things are about to change. This may cause a problem for people who wanted to use this book for DH (non ascenscion game) or RT - you'll need to do a lot of scaling down (The Genestealer in this book eat the one from Creature Anathema for breakfeast as an example).

But here goes:

The Alien Threat:

Tau:

• A bunch of new weapon
• Broadside Battle Suit (Elite)
• Commander Flamewing (Master - a beefed up Commander)
• Ethreal (Master)
• Drone (Troop)
• Kroot Carnivor (Troop)
• Kroot Shaper (Master)
• Krootox (Elite)
• Knarloc (Elite)
• Great Knarloc (Elite)
• Kroot Hound (Troop)
• Tau Pathfinder (Troop)
• Vespid Stingwing (Troop)

Tyranids:

• 3 new weapons
• 7 new psychic power
• Carnifex (Elite)
• Dagon Overlord (Master)
• Gargoyle (Troop)
• Lictor (Elite)
• Purestrain Genestealer (Elite) & Broodlord (Master) - there is no rule on GS cults however
• Ravener (Elite)
• Ripper Swarm (Troop)
• Trygon (Master)
• Tyranid Warrior Prime (Master)
• Tyrant Guard (Elite)
• Venomthrope (Elite)
• Zoanthrope (Elite)

Orks:

• Ork Boyz (Troop)
• Meganob (Elite)
• Warboss (Master)
• Big Mek Wurrzog (Master)

Other Xenos (i.e., the guys who don't have army books in the TT):

• Bruul Parasite - Critter that infest humans and control them
• Crotalid (Troop) - a space crocodile basically
• Diablodon (Elite) - a space T-rex
• Lacrymole (Elite) - Shapeshifting humanoid aliens
• Locatl Mercenaries (elite) - quadrupedal lizard that are gun for hires.

Radical and Heretics:

• Inquisitor Thaddeus Hakk (Master) - some renegade inquisitor
• Apostate Cardinal (Master) - Basically a member of the clergy that turned to Chaos
• Pontifex Guard (Elite) - Their heavily armored bodyguard
• Magos Phayzarus (Master)
• Irradial Gogitator (Master) - Hal from space oddissey 2001 in 40k
• Samech Redemption Servitors (Elite)
• Slinnar War Machine (Elite) - Plasma powered cyborg
• Spire Slayer (Master) - animated doomsday device designed to wipe out Hive planets

The Force of Chaos:

• Bloodthirster (Master)
• Great Unclean One (Master)
• Keeper of Secrets (Master)
• Lord of Change (Master)
• Kyrus the Chantleader (Master) - an infamous chaos lord
• Bloodletter (Elite)
• Daemonette (Elite)
• Pink Horror (Elite)
• Plaguebearer (Elite)
• Chaos Space Marine Sorcerer (Elite)
• Khorne Bersekers (Elite)
• Noise Marines (Elite)
• Obliterators (Elite)
• Plague Marine (Elite)
• Possessed Chaos Space Marine Elite)
• Weapons for the Khornate, Noise and Plague Marines
• Chaos Psychic Power (5 total)

Advanced Adversaries:

• Advice on better using Hordes (psychic horde, hordes vers hordes, etc)
• About 17 new Horde traits
• Rule for Massed Battles
• Rules for turning points (Mechanic used in Final Sanction).

I'm personally thrilled with my purchase, as I got a lot more than I expected.

Kain McDogal said:

Ok, so... skimming through this I gather that Eldar aren't in the new book. That means I don't really want this book. What I want is a book of 40k Roleplay, beit DH, RT, or DW with some damned Eldar in it. I already have Creatures Anathema. Can anybody point me in the right direction?

DFK! said:

Xenos Compendium for Rogue Trader coming sometime "Summer" (I expect early fall) will have a fair chunk of Eldar. Hopefully about as much as we had Tau in Mark of the Xenos.

There are some scattered Eldar in other RT books, but I'd wait for XC to come out.

signoftheserpent said:

Why just a backdrop?

The Inner Sphere has been BattleTech’s backdrop for 25 years and it’s story has been advancing that entire time (the original date was 3025, it’s not sitting at 3082-ish). You can pick any period of time and do anything you want within this background, and at no point does it become dictatorial.

The idea of the Jericho Reach being a living breathing story that develops over time is so much better than a static background that is naught but a framework for games.

BYE

I can see the benefits of both viewpoints. On the one hand, I don't want to just run through someone else's story, so it's nice to use the JR as the background and take the Achilus Crusade in whichever direction I see fit. What's in the Omega Vault? Whatever the heck I want.

On the other hand, it's cool to see more information come out. I might not like the information, and it would ruin the mystery, but it would be nice to see something more concrete on what's in the Omega Vault. Do the Tau and Imperium ever band together to fight back the Tyranids? My campaign won't go that way, but if that was the official take it could make for some cool adventures.

The Inner Sphere is...I'd say a bit more restrictive in that there's such a political slant to things. Apart from doing something like introducing the Necrons too early, it's hard to interfere with the established timeline of the 40k universe with a Jericho Reach DW game. If Inquisitor Quist is squished (say that three times fast, I dare ya) by a Carnifex, it's okay. The universe churns onward like normal. If you run a game and have Victor Davion dying when the Clans first invade, then you've just tossed the BattleTech timeline out the window. And that's fine, if you want to run that game. That's the beauty of these game universes.

Metaplots done good can advance a game. Look at Battletech with the Clans or Aeon Trinity with the Chromatic Wars. Bad metaplots can box a game into a corner, like Deadlands, 7th Seas or World of Darkness. I'd rather a slowly advanced timeline than a rushed job. More over, no super NPCs that will be only killed by other super NPCs. I want to kill Stone, Reis, Vader, Binks and Drizzt myself, not let somebody else do it.

Why would you want to kill Drizzt? The elf should be so dead inside from constantly losing loved ones that you'd only be putting him out of his misery.

H.B.M.C. said:

signoftheserpent said:

Timelines ain't my thing either. In my view it's a rpg company's job to give me the tools to create my own story not to write the story for me. Especially if I have some nifty ideas and they clash with the official progression and then further official developments based on that can't be used either without contradicting my own story.

I understand why companies do that though.

Alex

Brand said:

That's all true. The problem some have (not so much me, and I hate to touch on "canon" again) is when they start their own campaign and have the official version go differently. There are probably some who, if playing a campaign focused on defeating the Tyranid invasion, might be unhappy if the next book revealed that the Tyranids actually pushed ahead all the way to the Iron Collar.

I've seen similar reactions in other games. A lot of Exalted players had games that focused on the disappearance of the Scarlet Empress, probably the biggest metaplot story hook when the game first came out. Then the metaplot advanced and it turns out she was with a demon in Hell planning a wedding (I'm really abbreviating the story here). A lot of people didn't like that and thought the metaplot should have stayed where it was, just providing a backdrop for them to base their games on.

I look forward to the Achilus Assault book, not only for setting and adventure ideas but to get a better grasp of the Crusade as a whole. We'll hopefully get some more info on Imperial forces in the JR, and that'll actually be my biggest help. I get tired of naming Battleship X and Commander Y all the time.

Brand said:

Point of order, that's not Metaplot...

It's been not too subtle hinted from the very start of the game that the Empress has been prisoner in Malfeas. So no new surprises there, when it comes to further releases, or the scenario book Return of the Scarlet Empress. They didn't advance the clock once, any book you pick up it's still only been 5 years since she disapeered. Even RotSE was a "this is what happens, if you want it to" situation.

Metaplot would have been if we were suddenly told it's 8 years since the Scarlet Empress disapeered, and that there was a brief civil war on the Blessed Isle, with Cathak Cainan taking over, and declaring that they were going to go to war war with the Mask of Winters, to liberate Thorns. And then every subsequent book taking this as the default assumption of the setting. Metaplot is what caused the difference in the setting that there was between 2nd Edition WoD and Revised (Ravnos waking up, and lots of destructive magic power being thrown around, making a mess of everything for everybody).

It's a common accusation you see, for games that actually have no metaplot. When they expand the setting background, and elaborate on the history of the setting, people start jumping up and down about metaplot. But stuff that happened in the past (in the context of the game) isn't metaplot, nor is simply learning something new about the current situation.

Has anybody noticed a little bit of the NEW optional weapon stats has crept into MotX?

The Tau Pulse Rifle of the Kroot Shaper has the following stats: 150m; 1d10+12 E; Pen 4; Clip 36; Rld Half; Gyro-Stabilized; the RoF is missing.

This maybe a hint that the optional rules were developed long before the release of the errata 1.1 and this would mean the new stats weren't used because MotX was written before but were left out deliberatly because they are in fact only optional!

Sure it is, Blood Pact. The metaplot is the overarching storyline that binds together events in a role-playing game. (<-- grabbed from Wikipedia)

I'll grant you that Exalted doesn't have the same sort of metaplot as other games like the World of Darkness or Forgotten Realms, but its still there. The Ebon Dragon-wedding story wasn't part of the world when Exalted was first released, but it's been pretty much hammered home to fans since then (primarily in 2nd edition). Sure, we haven't jumped ahead in the starting timeline, but more and more has been revealed about the world and the history behind it - thus filling in the story (aka metaplot) of the world. First the Great Contagion wiped out most of Creation. Then we learn the GC was actually a disease created by a psycho Deathlord. Oh, and the Fair Folk invasion was actually caused by the plotting of two OTHER Deathlords, etc. We get more and more facts filled in, and these often don't fit with what players think or expect.

The key is that metaplot can include events both past and present. If Achilus Assault tells us that a force of Grey Knights is working to bring down the Chaos forces in the JR, then that would alter the overall metaplot of the setting since I don't think we've seen any mention of GK activity there yet.

Kain, is that the only instance of the new weapon stats you've seen in the book? It would be odd if they gave different pulse rifle stats for different Tau enemies.

Brand said:

As far as I have noticed it's the only one and I think it only was a mistake that it was published. Maybe one of the developers has played with the optional rules for some time and so it crept into MotX by accident.

But the real interesting fact is not that some content of the new optional rules made it into MotX but that the whole rules weren't used!

This can only mean that the optional rules were available for some time before MotX made it to the printer, which brings up the question why they weren't used for all adversaries. The only possible answer is they were always seen as optional and it was never intended that they replace the old ones in future publications.

Another thing I have noticed is that every adversary which you can find in DH or RT was improved for DW. They get either better weapons or made stronger, especially lesser daemons like Daemonettes and Bloodletters are now better than their DH counterparts. This will also solve the question why DW SM's are so much better than DH Sororitas. These are 2 different games and whenever there will be a need for a Battle Sister in a DW adventure (NPC), she will have better stats and weapons than an Adepta Sororita PC in DH. The only poor NPC which will ever stays the same is the Guardsman. Maybe this ist the Reason why they are only deployed in Regiments.

Kain McDogal said:

Holy leap in logic batman!

Now I haven't followed the 20 pages thread on the new weapon, but you are coming across as someone who is riding somekind of 'it's only an optional rule! It's not meant to replace the core rule!' horse here.

But yeah... the optional weapon rules are optional. FFG has to assume that some of their customer may not have the interent and/or may not come to this site and thus aren't even aware of an errata. So they can't possibly switch the weapons mid-range like that.

Which doesn't in any shape or form contradict the idea that those optional change aren't in fact the 'beta test' for a 2nd edition of DW or what not. Nor does it mean it is really... until FFG goes out and say it, we can only speculate.

The fact that you draw that the 'only possible answer' is clearly what you believe in from a typo in a book is pretty **** intense 0_o

Kain McDogal said:

Personally, I don't believe that the lesser daemons in the Dark Heresy rulebook were anywhere near powerful enough in the first place, so the versions in MotX are less "a version to face Space Marines with" and more "correcting an old mistake", and the same can be said of several other creatures as well - I'm of the opinion that the main reason the Astartes exist is because so much of the nonhuman population of the universe is utterly terrifying to face for a normal human, even a well-trained one, that posthuman supersoldiers are a necessity.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Got to agree here. Even the Dark Heresy errata changes the DH Core Rulebook so that the lesser Daemons are more dangerous than the originally printed rules. Those Daemons were not as good as they should have been, so this 'revision' fixes that (like the new Lictor, IMO).

BYE

Brand said:

Let me use two examples, one good and one bad, where the story in a game was advanced.

In BattleTech there had long been the mystery of what happened to Clan Wolverine, and this group called the Minnesota Tribe that had appears for a while then vanished. It was a long-standing mystery that had been part of BattleTech for years, and while everyone suspected that the remnants of Clan Wolverine had escaped it was never confirmed. A few years back Catalyst releases a book called The Blake Documents, which is full of secrets and mysteries and whatnot. Included in that book was an entire section about the fate of Clan Wolverine. It didn't explicitly explain every detail of what happened, but it made it clear that this group not only had survived their attempted Trial of Annihilation, but had prospered, moved around the Inner Spher and eventually became a bit part of the Word of Blake. It explained their hatred of the Clans, it explained why the Ghost Bears were doing genetic testing on all killed/captured WoB members (the Ghost Bears had let some of the Wolverine fleet go after the Annihilation, and held great shame over that, so saw it as their duty to make it right) and we even got three fancy new 'Mechs out of it. It was an example of taking a long-standing mystery and explaining it in a way that doesn't just ruin the vibe of the mystery, but takes it in a different direction and integrates it with the current story line. Worked really well.

The second example is that of the Legion of the Damned in 40K. Another one of those long-standing mysteries, the Legion of the Damned were seen as everything from a specialist elite Space Marine Chapter, penitent Traitor Legionnaires, the ghosts of long-dead Marines – and everything in between. The way they appeared at the moment when they were needed the most, were silent warriors who said nothing, and then vanished as quickly as they appeared made them into a very interesting force. Hell, if not for the explanation, they’d make a great plot hook for any DH or DW scenario. Anyway, the few stories they were in were evocative pieces that added to the depth of 40K, and highlighted the idea that the Daemons of Chaos weren’t the only ‘super natural’ things within 40K. Then they came along and explained exactly who they were – the Fire Hawks Chapter, caught in some weird Warp Storm, who contracted a disease that’s slowly killing them, so they now roam around helping out until they all die off. Wow. Way to kill the mystery guys. So they’re just an unfortunate Marine Chapter, and to add a bit of OTT grimderp to it, they’re all slowly dying (just like half the other Chapters in the universe – how original!).

The first example took the mystery elements, didn’t explain them 100%, but branched them off in a way that fills in blanks, adds to the story, concludes some areas of it, and leaves us wondering. The second example takes a mystery, gives it a lame explanation, and that’s it – it leaves us with nothing else beyond “They’re a dying Marine chapter!”.

Deathwatch (and the Jericho Reach) has its own mysteries – even more than just the Omega Vault as you’ll no doubt see when you read The Achilus Assault – and I don’t think FFG should go and explain them all. But there’s no harm in bringing a few mysteries to a head and even basing a few adventure supplements around them (the second part of TEP already does that for the Necrons). I see what you’re saying with the Tyranids/Iron Collar example, but to be honest I don’t think players will mind that much.

Going back to the BattleTech example, there was a period in the timeline (3058-3062) that I really liked – the Inner Sphere was on the up-and-up, the Star League was reformed, and the Spheroids were taking it back to the Clanners! We had Operation Bird Dog, Bulldog and the Great Refusal and it was a big war-arc that ended in a tremendous victory. The years immediately after (3063-6067) saw great upheaval within the Inner Sphere as the largest realm was torn apart by Civil War. I didn’t like that. I liked the Federated Commonwealth and the peace and prosperity and Clan-ass-kicking it brought with it. The whole Civil War tore apart a lot of the things I liked, and left them in ruin (with no time to recover, as the WoB Jihad started immediately after). The thing is though that because these events are defined by the years they take place in, the background is essentially compartmentalised. If I don’t like the Jihad, or the FedCom Civil War, or whatever, I can ignore it and continue to play games in my blissful 3058-3062 era with not a thought of what comes after. There’s plenty of material to use within that period, and given how loose and undefined 40K is compared to BattleTech, there’s even more you can do with “eras” of history in a game like Deathwatch.

All that said of course, it doesn’t make what you’re saying wrong. Not everyone likes changes (a lot of people don’t like the WoB Jihad in BTech – hell, there are still people who ***** about the arrival of the Clans!), and not everyone can be made happy all the time. I still don’t think that’s a good enough reason to not try to move things forward though. The more the ‘plot’ advances, the more elements you can introduce, and in the end people like more content and will just use it how they want.

BYE

I think people upset over the arrival of the Clans need to get over it. That ship sailed a looooong time ago. And I'm somewhat the reverse of you. My favorite time, and the one I'm most familiar with, is the FedCom Civil War. Though that might have something to do with the fact I really wanted to see Katrina taken down.

As long as the story makes sense and is at least somewhat cool, I'm all for more information. Tyranids assaulting Karlack? Cool, tell me all about it. Tyranids all dying because they caught a cosmic cold (and not one introduced by a DW team)? GTFO and let me make up my own story.

Brand said:

Heh, make me think of some metaplot disaster White Wolf did with their OWoD games, especially Werewolf...

Rage Across Russia was one of their oldest supplement, it introduced Baba Yaga has a powerful vampire. The book was a bit odd because you needed to have Vampire (Werewolf's sisters game) to use the baddies, but overall, Baba Yaga was often mentionned in the Werewolf Book and many people (myself included) ran chronicle in her 'Shadow Curtain' Russia.

Another big bad was Black Mane, a Were-lion who terrorised Africa. He and his pride would keep all werewolves out and were rumored to be corrupted by the wyrm (the big bad of the setting).

Both Baba Yaga and Black Mane were detailed over the years in any book that touched the meta plot has well as many novels.

Eventually tho, White Wolf decided to release a huge book that essentially made the metaplot for all OWoD game advance... in this book, Baba Yaga - one of the greatest Werewolf villain of all time - was killed by a nameless vampire 'off-screen' while the Werewolves were busy fighting her sergeants. Black Mane actually had a similar fate, getting whacked Mafia style by the Naga (were-snake).

GG really...

Tarkand said:

It is pretty obvious that this is not a mere typo as the Pulse Rifle's damage AND Penetration are EXACTLY the same as in the new optional rules. Someone who used this rules a lot designed the Kroot Shaper and accidentally used them for the Pulse Rifle. And yes, I'm riding 'the new weapon rules are only optional' horse because some on this forum sell them to newcomers as the biggest invention since the wheel and the future for all 4 W40K RPG's.

If this would be the case they would have used them on MotX (they were clearly available at the time of writing, the opposite assumption was often used as an argument why they didn't made it into MotX) and probably would have printed all new weapon tables at least for the Xenos!

H.B.M.C. said:

Apologies for being a tedious pedant, but I'm not sure this is correct. As far as I'm aware, the article which introduced the Legion of the Damned (White Dwarf 99 from the late '80s) explicitly stated right from the beginning that the Fire Hawks Chapter were lost in the warp and the survivors became the Legion of the Damned. So this isn't a long standing mystery, really: this element in their history was introduced right from the start.

In fact, the "metaplot" for 40k goes on to develop the Fire Hawks' backstory very nicely, placing them as key instigators of the Badab war, an arrogant and aggressive chapter with a tendancy to nuke first and ask questions later. This was actually really nicely done, in my opinion.

That bit of pedantry aside (sorry!), I agree with your overall point, HBMC.

A metaplot is a potentially risky element for any game line, and there have been a number of missteps. Examples of how not to do it include:-

• The "Gehenna" book for Vampire the Masquerade which not only killed off a hugely successful game line, but did it badly.
• The treatment of the squats in 40k
• The "Empire in flames" book for WFRP 1st ed, which revealed that the crown prince was a mutant and killed off the Emperor

The overriding feature of these examples is that the writers either took a key feature of the setting and irrevocably removed it because they personally didn't like it, or decided to wipe out the setting completely because they felt it had all gotten too convoluted. Or tried to be innovative with a key "background" feature of the setting in a way which upsets the continuity of the overall system.

Personally, I think that it's part of the duty of a writer in a wider multi-author setting to respect all of the exisiting elements, and to work with them. If a GW writer/developer didn't like the squats, they should have respected the fact that a lot of people did. There are elements of 40k that I don't like, but if was paid to write about them, I hope I'd be able to do as good a job as possible for the fans of those elements without trying to write them out of existence because they personally offend me.

Metaplots, done well, can really enhance a game line. YMMV, but I think Shadowrun is a game which has really run with this idea, updating the "in game" universe by a year for each real year which advances. Done this way, major new events can be added on a regular basis, keeping the line fresh.

Conversely, the White Wolf VtM and WtA etc grand meltdown is an example of how a metaplot can end up so convoluted and complicated that the writers paint themselves completely into a corner.

My view is that FFG should steer clear of too many metaplots, for this reason especially those which involve key elements of the setting they have created. I'd be disappointed if we start seeing adventures where Marius Hax turns out to be a Tzeentchian cultist, for example. To some extent, major political figures in the setting should be treated a bit like historical figures in period drama: they should appear, interact with the PCs, and then carry on with their lives. (That said, there are examples of good writers taking elements from the setting and putting a new spin on them that is genuinely innovative and interesting...a lot of this is currently being attempted with the BL Horus Heresy line, with mixed results. A good example of it working well is the novel "Legion," my favourite of that entire line, which makes fans of the setting look at the Alpha Legion in a totally new way.)

I always favour a well developed setting over constant metaplot changes.

H.B.M.C. said:

+1, although deamons are in essence supposed to be extremely variable so it's enough to hand away that ones acolytes fought till now were much worse than average.