All weapon stats are Pre-Errata. The game assumes the standard stats for weapons. The errata amends them, and will likely continue to do so rather than suddenly shifting the books to reflect an errata not everyone will have. At least, that's the way I'd do it.
ddunkelmeister said:
N0-1_H3r3 said:
No, it has bearing. Trust me on this. There is no guarantee that a Deathwatch character at any given rank will have X number of additional wounds or Y number of advances to WS or BS - he could as easily have spent them on Lore skills or other advances that have exactly no bearing on a character's ability to kill, while the experience spent to purchase those advances apply equally to the character's rank whatever they are.
More to the point, it's hardly fair to beat players senseless like a redheaded stepchild because they elected to spend their XP on background skills instead of min-maxxing and just being uber.
ddunkelmeister said:
Thousand Sons occupy an awkward place in the setting. While commonly regarded as the "Cult Marines" for Tzeentch, their origins are far more specific. A Khorne Berzerker is likely to be of the World Eaters Legion, but doesn't have to be, and same can be said of the Plague Marines and the Death Guard, and the Noise Marines and the Emperor's Children. However, all Rubric Marines (referred to as Rubricae in the recently-released Battle for the Fang) originate from the Thousand Sons Legion, because the Rubric of Ahriman only affected that Legion.
As a result, the Thousand Sons are, by far, the rarest of the "Cult Marines", given that their existence is the result of a single colossal unique ritual that only affected a single depleted group of Traitor Astartes, which now have no autonomous will of their own.
They're not as easy to integrate as the others. That's not to say that rules weren't written for them and simply never made it into the final manuscript (it happens).
Of course, if you're desperate for them, I've just written these up in the last 15 minutes.
Rubric Marine (Elite) Profile
WS BS S T Ag Int Per WP Fel
54 54 54(12) 54(10) 36 – 54 54 –
Move: 4/8/12/24 Wounds: 54
Skills: Awareness (Per), Dodge (Ag), Intimidate (S) +20, Psyniscience (Per) +20, Speak Language (Low Gothic, Prosperan)
Talents: Astartes Weapon Training, Bolter Drill, Diehard, Lightning Reflexes, Quick Draw, Rapid Reload, Swift Attack, Unarmed Master, Unarmed Warrior
Traits: Auto-stabilised, Daemonic (TB 15), Dark Sight, Fear (2), From Beyond, Size (Hulking), The Stuff of Nightmares, The Protection of Chaos, The Sorcerer Commands, Undying, Unnatural Strength (x2), Unnatural Toughness (x2)
The Sorcerer Commands: If a Rubric Marine is not within 100m of a Thousand Sons' Sorcerer, it can only perform a single Half Action each turn. A single Sorcerer can motivate a number of Rubric Marines equal to his Willpower Bonus in this way.
Armour: Astartes Power Armour (Arms 8, Body 10, Head 8, Legs 8)
Weapons: Astartes Bolter loaded with Ensorcelled Bolts (100m; S/3/5; 2d10+5 X; Pen 5; Clip 28; Reload Full; Tearing, Warp Weapon), Combat Blade (1d10+12 R; Pen 2; Balanced)
Gear: 4 Bolter Magazines
H.B.M.C. said:
This is, what, the fourth set of stats for Genestealers? (CA, some other DH book had another quick blurb IIRC, TEP,) Don't get me wrong, I understand why they would want to include them. I'm more just commmenting from the perspective of someone who does have all those books.
The Kroot and Vespids are in a similar state. The GM's kit has stats for Carnivores and Vespids.
As for the cross-system bit, in the Ork section there is a sidebar that advertises that more Ork stats and gear are available in CA and Into the Storm.
I do want to be clear. I am really happy with what the writers did for this book. I was just making note of some minor things other people might want to know.
@ N0-_H3r3:
Thanks for the quick write-up. I was planning on just adapting some of the traits and concepts introduced in TEP (All is Dust, Inferno Bolts, etc). I understand that Rubric Marines are a more unique group of entities, it's just that they're always lumped together as the "cult troops" for Tzeentch along with the others, and it was mildly surprising that they were no where to be seen.
It's not reasonable to assume that everyone has the Deathwatch Demo scenario, or even The Emperor Protects. It's also not reasonable to expect Deathwatch players to buy a supplement for Dark Heresy to get Genestealer/Lictor stats. Finally the Genestealers within MoX represent 'general' Genestealers where as the ones in TEP and the demo scenario are a specific strain from a specific planet (hence the reason why they have different names).
As for the Kroot and Vespid (and this would apply to the Oblit as well), leaving them out would just create gaps. You can be certain that if the Kroot Carnivore had been left out we'd have people complaining that MoX had all these new Kroot, but left out the regular Kroot Carnivore and "... now I have to buy the GM Kit just for this statline!".
Product ownership beyond the Core Rulebook is never assumed with these supplements. That's why two books in a row might contain a 'New Weapon Quality: Proven' even though if you own both the note is redundant. It's because they don't assume you have both books, so they print the rules in both.
BYE
H.B.M.C. said:
It's not reasonable to assume that everyone has the Deathwatch Demo scenario, or even The Emperor Protects. It's also not reasonable to expect Deathwatch players to buy a supplement for Dark Heresy to get Genestealer/Lictor stats. Finally the Genestealers within MoX represent 'general' Genestealers where as the ones in TEP and the demo scenario are a specific strain from a specific planet (hence the reason why they have different names).
As for the Kroot and Vespid (and this would apply to the Oblit as well), leaving them out would just create gaps. You can be certain that if the Kroot Carnivore had been left out we'd have people complaining that MoX had all these new Kroot, but left out the regular Kroot Carnivore and "... now I have to buy the GM Kit just for this statline!".
Product ownership beyond the Core Rulebook is never assumed with these supplements. That's why two books in a row might contain a 'New Weapon Quality: Proven' even though if you own both the note is redundant. It's because they don't assume you have both books, so they print the rules in both.
BYE
Groovy. I'm really not interested in making anything of this; I was simply pointing something out that people might want to know that there are some repetitions. If anything, the thing that bugs me the most is the Chaos Sorceror with Psy Rating 5, two powers. 
M. Bison 1, Me 0
H.B.M.C. said:
It's not hard to modify some stats, add a few more Talents and up their wound count, so balancing things against higher level Kill-Team's isn't that hard.
Calonnau said:
Really? Hmm...
Can anyone post the Sonic Weapon stats? I'm dying to see what they are and my book won't be here for another week at least.
BYE
Sure mate, here you go:
Blastmaster (on setting #1 - "withering hail of discordant noise"): Basic; 150m; S/2/-; 1D10+12E; Pen: 6; Clip:-; Rld:-; Special: Devastating (1), Storm
Blastmaster (on setting #2 - "single, massive infernal blast"): Heavy; 250m; S/-/-; 3D10+10E; Pen: 8; Clip-; Rld:-; Special: Blast (5), Devastating (2)
Doom Siren: Basic; 30m; S/-/-; 1D10+12E; Pen: 9; Clip:-; Rld:-; Special: Flame
Sonic Blaster: Basic; 100m; S/2/4; 1D10+9E; Pen: 4, Clip:-; Rld:-; no Special
csabesz said:
Blastmaster (on setting #1 - "withering hail of discordant noise"): Basic; 150m; S/2/-; 1D10+12E; Pen: 6; Clip:-; Rld:-; Special: Devastating (1), Storm
Blastmaster (on setting #2 - "single, massive infernal blast"): Heavy; 250m; S/-/-; 3D10+10E; Pen: 8; Clip-; Rld:-; Special: Blast (5), Devastating (2)
Doom Siren: Basic; 30m; S/-/-; 1D10+12E; Pen: 9; Clip:-; Rld:-; Special: Flame
Sonic Blaster: Basic; 100m; S/2/4; 1D10+9E; Pen: 4, Clip:-; Rld:-; no Special
Picked up MoX last thursday and I had a read of it over the weekend. I do agree that it's getting a bit silly with the amount of repetition of the Genestealer at this stage. However since this is the official 'creatures' book for DW I can understand that FFG probably felt obliged to make sure the genestealer stats were in it. I do think that if the purestrain genestealer had a wider range of biomorphs it would feel a bit more interesting.
I was a little underwhelmed by the greater daemons - not in their stats per se but I thought they could have used some more 'flavour' rules to show how they literally 'warp' the physical world around them. Stuff like Bloodthirsters inciting frenzy in those around it or GUO's causing weapons to jam or armour to rot & fall apart. The psychic powers list for the sorcerors was a bit bare, they really should have specific power lists for each God (except Khorne obviously).
I would have assumed that CSM sorcerors could pick psychic powers from the Codex powers list (and the entry on pg 127 refers to the chaos powers being "in addition to their own formidable psychic powers") but their stat entry on pg 116 states to pick just 2 powers from chaos list.
The Tau & Tyranid entries fill out their respective forces nicely but my favourite part of the book was actually the "radicals & heretics" section as I feel it gives the players enemies which are more than just targets to shoot. I particularly liked the background for Inquisitor Hakk but I wished they had given him an illustration which more closely matched his description. Hakk is a character who could be either ally or antagonist to the kill team and his description says he forgoes finery or displays of power in favour of a simple armoured vacc-suit. His illustration however has him in sinister looking inquisitorial garb carrying a chainsword bearing the star of chaos. It takes all the ambiguity of the character away and would immediately put the kill-team on edge when viewing it.
The Radicals & Heretics Chapter is my fav Chapter in the book. There so much good in there, and it's not just Hordes of Cultists and Mutants. The Pontifex Guard were a lot of fun in the session we tried them in, and Phayzarus is my fav thing in the whole book. The Irradial Cogitator is an evil thing - that picture is just disturbing - and could make a great final reveal for a campaign.
BYE
csabesz said:
Sonic Blaster: Basic; 100m; S/2/4; 1D10+9E; Pen: 4, Clip:-; Rld:-; no Special
If anybody would be kind and check, but I think the stat line for the Sonic Blaster is different on the Noise Marine profile. I thought it had storm and tearing,
H.B.M.C. said:
I appreciate your willingness to explain. 
Csabesz:
Give the man/woman a cookie!
As per the Noise Marine profile:
100m; S/2/4; 1d10+9 E; Pen 4; Clip -; Rld -; Storm, Tearing
ddunkelmeister said:
Csabesz:
Give the man/woman a cookie!
As per the Noise Marine profile:
100m; S/2/4; 1d10+9 E; Pen 4; Clip -; Rld -; Storm, Tearing
Errr...I meant Doc Kill.
For people concerned about the lack of special rules for Greater Daemons, one (admittedly impractical) possibility is to track down the very excellent Tome of Corruption from WFRP 2nd Edition. The stats in that book have some more flavor rules, like the Bloodthirster emitting an aura of contagious rage, the Keeper of Secrets hypnotizing opponents, etc.
Just thought I'd mention it.
ddunkelmeister said:
For people concerned about the lack of special rules for Greater Daemons, one (admittedly impractical) possibility is to track down the very excellent Tome of Corruption from WFRP 2nd Edition. The stats in that book have some more flavor rules, like the Bloodthirster emitting an aura of contagious rage, the Keeper of Secrets hypnotizing opponents, etc.
Sounds like a good idea! - but I am sure we can also make a good brainstorm in here, when more people have obtained a copy 
ddunkelmeister said:
H.B.M.C. said:
I appreciate your willingness to explain.
Csabesz:
Give the man/woman a cookie!
As per the Noise Marine profile:
100m; S/2/4; 1d10+9 E; Pen 4; Clip -; Rld -; Storm, Tearing
Oh well... it was late at night, so I surely have the right to blame the Warp.
I was actually using the Chaos Weapons table at page 126 and there's no mention of any special quality (or more precisely, the special quality is crossed out). I'm no expert on Noise Marines, so the table might be wrong... or it might be worth to shoot a question at Ross about it.
So the weapon in the Noise Marine profile is different to the weapon in the Sonic Weapon summary?
*sigh*
Wonderful... 
BYE
i normally order from amazon but feel like waiting so wheres the best place to order this from in the UK?
Hardrainfalling said:
i normally order from amazon but feel like waiting so wheres the best place to order this from in the UK?
www.leisuregames.com
Hi there,
since MotX is know available as PDF for $20 I consider buying it as additional DH-resource. But I would like to know a little more
Anythinig about Symbiontic Cults?
Even minor notes about "how" or "horde stats" would be useful to me...as long as they are official
How well described are the two sentient "Other Xenos"?
The page numbers indicate "fairly enough for a mysterious alien race", but I fear that some REALLY BIG PICTURES are on the page
How decent is the Kroot material?
I could not care less for Ork & Tau & Nids...and Heretics & Daemons are something I am able to brew up myself. But in case of official alien race I like my stuff...official. So is a little given about the culture and ways of these mercenaries?
Thanks for any replys!
1)Symbiotic Cults? Not quite sure what your referring to...
2) Both the Lacrymole (mysterious alien shape-shifters) and the Loxatl (mysterious funky-smelling alien mercenaries) have illustrations to accompany them. Unfortunately, both of them are, well, mysterious. The Lacrymole were thought to have been exterminated several times (including during the Great Crusade), and virtually nothing is known about them. The Loxatl appear several times in the Gaunt's Ghosts series, but they don't do much more than shoot at people and die. I'd say the book gives less info about them than the Slaugth, to give a DH comparison.
3) Pretty much every Kroot unit is covered in the book. MoZ doesn't largely concern itself with cultural habits and customs. To be honest, Kroot culture has pretty much always been portrayed as "listen to Shaper, eat people." The best source for Kroot info (from a mindset and behavioral viewpoint) may be Into the Storm from RT (it contains rules for playing a Kroot Mercenary).
Hope this helps!
I hate to re-open the Eldar debate, but nobody even seemed to have blinked when I mentioned the RT Xenos Compendium coming in a few months which will contain (hopefully a ton of) Eldar stats. Are there any of you wanting Eldar stats that won't pick up the book just because it doesn't have the DW logo? I mean, I understand the outcry if FFG said they'd never publish Eldar ever. But they already have a book announced that is going to fill in more Eldar info. I think it is smart for them to try and have minimal overlap between the different lines, so people don't complain about the opposite problem. There's already enough grumbling over how often the genestealer has appeared, although I'm kind of surprised they weren't in the main book.
As to the original stats for guns, that makes sense. The new errata stats are optional, the books are going to follow the core baseline. I for one can't wait to get my hands on this. I also can't wait for the Xenos Compendium as well, but at least their staggered release lets me spread out my budget.
MikeN said:
Well the "astartes" weapons that the chaos marines carry seem to be in line with the original rulebook rather than the errata. You could hand-wave it aside and claim they're heresy-era weapons but really since they're the same type of weapons (bolter,chainsword, pistol etc) the KT carry anyway it shouldn't be too hard to avoid confusion.
ddunkelmeister said:
1)Symbiotic Cults? Not quite sure what your referring to...
2) Both the Lacrymole (mysterious alien shape-shifters) and the Loxatl (mysterious funky-smelling alien mercenaries) have illustrations to accompany them. Unfortunately, both of them are, well, mysterious. The Lacrymole were thought to have been exterminated several times (including during the Great Crusade), and virtually nothing is known about them. The Loxatl appear several times in the Gaunt's Ghosts series, but they don't do much more than shoot at people and die. I'd say the book gives less info about them than the Slaugth, to give a DH comparison.
3) Pretty much every Kroot unit is covered in the book. MoZ doesn't largely concern itself with cultural habits and customs. To be honest, Kroot culture has pretty much always been portrayed as "listen to Shaper, eat people." The best source for Kroot info (from a mindset and behavioral viewpoint) may be Into the Storm from RT (it contains rules for playing a Kroot Mercenary).
Hope this helps!
Hi DDunnkelmeister,
it helped a lot! By "Symbiont Cult" I referred to the cult some Genestealer generate around themself while they genetically infiltrate human society. Perhaps I got the wrong term, it might "Brood Cult" in english. You know...this cults based upon a Patriach, mainly made up of half-human genestealers and some pure strains that are kept in the cellar.
deinol said:
I hate to re-open the Eldar debate, but nobody even seemed to have blinked when I mentioned the RT Xenos Compendium coming in a few months which will contain (hopefully a ton of) Eldar stats. Are there any of you wanting Eldar stats that won't pick up the book just because it doesn't have the DW logo? I mean, I understand the outcry if FFG said they'd never publish Eldar ever. But they already have a book announced that is going to fill in more Eldar info. I think it is smart for them to try and have minimal overlap between the different lines, so people don't complain about the opposite problem. There's already enough grumbling over how often the genestealer has appeared, although I'm kind of surprised they weren't in the main book.
But that means A) having to wait for the release of XC and B) haveing to spend another £25 on buying it, presumably just for the Eldar. There won't be much else in there that will be relevant. Perhaps it might have Dark Eldar? Possible. It won't have Necrons. Possibly you might want the Rak'Gol and the Stryxis stuff. Possibly it might have more Kroot and Orks. But they wil be focussed around the RT game/ships and pirate types. All well and good, but is this really the best way that FFg could have gone about this? A single book might have been better and cheaper. MoX (and presumably XC) are not big books, but they are, because of the production values, expensive.
And yes there is a Harlequin in Emperor Protexts. He isn't given stats, but he is in one of the scenarios as some kind of prisoner or something. I thumbed through the book in the shop. Kinda makes a mockery of the idea that there are no Eldar in the JR.
signoftheserpent said:
And yes there is a Harlequin in Emperor Protexts. He isn't given stats, but he is in one of the scenarios as some kind of prisoner or something. I thumbed through the book in the shop. Kinda makes a mockery of the idea that there are no Eldar in the JR.
Yes, there is and it might be a hint for something big going on with Eldar in the JR, but not for NOW!
As I've said earlier the book is written buy it or leave it, you can't complain about today's weather either.