I'm trying to work up something to cover all the different Start of Turn effects, events cards etc. I need some opinions, ideas, checking what I might have missed etc.

At the monet, for start of turn in particular, I'm looking at a Q&A that completely overhauls 'start of turn'.
I envisage 4 main 'actual timings' being possible/important.

a) First, before anything else happens in a turn, effectively 'before' the turn.
b-OL) For OL, after discarding down to hand size (see DJitD pg18) but before Step 3.
b-H) For Hero, Any time after a) but before Declaring an action in Step 3
c) For an individual figure, only immediately before activating that figure or declaring that figure’s action (ie, only in step 3, but at a specific part of step 3)
d) Only during the specific Step indicated (eg spawning and discarding treasures only in step 2 – and discarding only at the end of that step 2)

The idea then is that anything within the same grouping (and d as appropriate) can then be resolved in the order decided by the active player (probably).

I've found the following 'start of turn' effects, events etc, grouped them as best I can, and given my estimation of options a-d which would be appropriate for each:
i) Rest Order - b or c
ii) Shadow Soul - a, b or c
iii) Lingering effect tokens: Burn, Bleed, Daze, Web, Enslaved, Frost, Sleep - a, b or c
iv) Spawns: already clear - d
v) Power Cards: already clear - b
vi) Feats: Carried By Air, Hurry, Foiled Plans, Hustle, Second Wind, Sparks of Pain*, We are not Afraid* - b or c (* indicates use durin OL's turn, which strongly inclines toward b IMO)
vii) OL Cards: Animate Weapons, Dance of the Monkey God, Dark Balm, Dark Charm, Dark Servant, Gust of Wind, Poltergeist, Smash, Spell of viii) Binding/Burning/Frost/Thunder, Time Slips Away - b
viii) Invisibility potions - b or c
ix) Discard Treasures” Crystal/Charm/Lamp/Eyes/Wishing Ring - d
x) Map effects (crushing walls/rolling boulders/ other specials) + Dar Hilzernod special and similar specials such as the Siren’s ‘call’ - a
xi) Swallow damage to hero - a, b or c
xii) Hero Special Abilities : Ispher, Red Scorpion, Varikas, Sahla, Captain Skill, Tatianna - a, b or c

I'd like to group these as:
a) only x
b) only v, vii, + vi*s
c) i, ii, iii, vi, ix, xi, xii
d) iv, ix

That puts everything that happens uniquely to or from one figure, grouped together at that figure's 'activation'. It is a major simplification, which changes a number of things from how I at least currently do them - but to be honest I'm not sure it would be fair to really call it a 'change' rules-wise since we really don't have anything solid at the moment.

So, please comment on:
1. Any effects/events etc missed that do not clearly fit within an existing category (i-xii) there?
2. Any major problems with this approach?
3. Any timing group (a-d) ideas I have missed?
4. Any particular problems that this will create?
5. Feel free to jump in with a better way to resolve this. We could do an exhaustive 1.1.2.5.1 style timing sheet that explicitly induces every start of turn option, but I am sure FFG wouldn't go for that (and neither would most fans) stylewise and I think it would be unsustainable at that level of detail for anything new expansions introduced as well.

I'll leave the 'general timing' stuff for now, though anyone else is welcome to jump in with ideas. Mine still really rely on triggers/responses, (simultaneous) effects stacking until no more are in play (or maybe more can be added as they are resolved?) and then one player deciding what order to resolve each 'simultaneous' effect before resolving the next.

Interesting approach. If you're suggesting that a good way to ask this question would be

"Which order do the following effects get resolved in, and which happen simultaneously?

a) ####

b) &&&&

c) ...... "

then I agree. Nice, direct, easy to ask, easy to answer (even if the answer is completely arbitrary).

Small thing– Are you suggesting that We Are Not Afraid would not affect threat levels for the purposes of playing Power cards? (Simultaneous resolution, OL's turn) Because that seems to defeat the purpose of the card.

phelanward said:

That is exactly the sort of thing I new I'd miss somewhere, so thanks.
Perhaps WaNA should be an a) - since it is a global-type effect rather than a 'individual figure' (or figure's turn) type effect? It seems to be unique among the Feats in that respect.

So are you asking to take back/ignore/overhaul the current FAQ ruling regarding the OL "start of turn" effects, which he may currently do in any order until he activates the first monster?

At least I cannot see how it is reflected in your current approach.

What about the OL step "collect threat, draw (& discard excess) cards"?

Parathion said:

Overhaul it. As it is, it is a muddled mess. The question is general (events - assume the general meaning of 'things that happen rather than the specific OL card type) but the answer starts off talking about 'events' then changes to 'effects' and limits the example to lingering effects only, which is not only bad form given the wide myriad of 'start of turn' 'events', but suspiciously coherent with the change from events to effects. So who can tell what the answer really means? Is it still all events (wider meaning)? That would directly contradict the rules on pg 18, as well as have the potential to have steps 1-2 intermingling entirely, so seems unlikely. Is it just effects? Seems likely, because we just made the alternative unlikely...
We've often happily extrapolated that answer out to mean anything and everything, but if we are going to address timing at all, we might as well clear it up completely.
How it is reflected in the current approach is to work out the divided timing-group (a-d), then apply the general principle behind that existing muddled answer (that active player chooses the order) to each timing-group. That satisfies both the FAQ ruling and the all existing rules on step1, step 2, step 3, etc, as best I can tell.
The slight exception is possibly moving a bunch of stuff effectively from 'start of turn' to 'start of activation'. That is just more consistent with the subtle differences between monster/Lt/Avatar activation and hero activation - a monster resolves the bleed token at the start of it's own activation, not the start of the OL's turn. It may produce a relatively large change in effect, where the interaction between things that exhaust and refresh changes, but I think it probably also more accurately reflects

Parathion said:

That is the divider for a) and b) - a) happens before this, b) happens after. The rules are clear that although the OL has some freedom in playing his 'start of turn' cards, he may not play any such cards before he discards excess cards.
DJitD pg18
Many overlord event cards include the phrase “Play at the start of your turn.” These cards must be played after the overlord player has discarded down to eight cards for the turn, but before he begins step 3 of his turn.

We might be able to simplify things further.
All a)'s happen before step 1.
All b)'s happen during step 2.
All c)'s happen between step 2 and step 3.
???