If Silas enters R'lyeh, he fails his personal story and becomes a Deep One. So... where is the Deep One placed? R'lyeh? The last place in Arkham that Silas was in before entering R'lyeh? What happens if he's in Lost Carcosa and he has an encounter that sends him to R'lyeh? Is the Deep One placed on the Arkham location with the open gate leading to Lost Carcosa?

I suppose there's no reason why a Deep One couldn't be placed in R'lyeh. You'd fight it during your Movement Phase, like normal.

Sorry if this has already been answered. I did forum search and I saw that the question had been asked once, but it didn't receive an answer.

I'd say that if Silas enters R'lyeh through a gate on the board, then you put the Deep One on that gate. If he enters R'lyeh from Carcosa, the Deep one should be placed in the area of Carcosa where he was said to move to R'lyeh. And then removed, since no monsters can stay in OW areas. Or, at least, this is the way I've always played it.

Since he becomes a Deep One while in R'lyeh, and since monsters aren't placed in the other worlds, then no Deep One should be placed.

Note that when using the Lurker gates, the only two gates that can open on Silas would either devour him or allow him to go to a different other world.

Okay, thanks guys. So in no case would Silas's personal story cause a Deep One to be placed on the board, right?

As written? No.

As intended? Put him where he last was before he entered (but if that's in an OW, return it to the cup. Or leave it if you really want to! But I'd not put it in an OW). That's how I plan on playing it should it come up But as Tibs said, the only way to fail that PS with Lurker gates is intentionally, since one R'lyeh gate is a double-gate (so you obviously choose the other) and the other is the devouring gate. So even if the lurker gates open on Silas, he won't fail unless you want to.

Tibs said:

But why, if no Deep One can be placed anywhere, his story instructs you to place a Deep One on his current location? OWs have areas, not locations. And why searching for a Deep One that cannot enter play? The wording "enters" means - at least to me - "passes through the gate"; the gate is on a certain location, so the Deep One should go there. No?

My guess is that they just copied and pasted the "Innsmouth look" effects, without stopping to think of what exactly was happening, meaning this was a typo.

Hm... I always play that way that when an investigator becomes a Deep One in an OW, he appears at the gate location. Makes sense, unless there is no such gate. Then, the Deep One just gets flung to LiTaS.

mi-go hunter said:

That's probably what I would do if the situation ever came up in one of my games (not because it's necessarily correct, but it's such a rare occasion, I'd practically *need* to put fish-Silas on the board), but it never has.

Tibs said:

I see. That's something sad to read, being Silas a really interesting character, he'd hav deserved better care. Anyway, do you think the FAQ will clarify this?

I say we ask Avi, and, based on his reaction, form our own conjectures on whether or not it's covered in the FAQ!

EcnoTheNeato said:

A thousand torturing tongs will never get me to talk! For one thing, it's difficult to talk over an internet forum.

Then I'll have to use my Internet Torturing Tongs, then

EcnoTheNeato said:

Not the internet tongs!

Followed by...the comfy chair! (where'd that Monty Python guy go?)

EcnoTheNeato said:

what if he has the devouring gate open on him and he has the messenger and discards him/it? a-ha!
(and not even using an expansion example, except for Silas of course, just to make everyone happier!)

we place monsters in other world areas on the rare occasions when we're forced to (like the mythos card where you have to retry close your gate trophies and failing means a monster appear on your location). it's always fun with extra obstructions even in the other worlds. don't think it's been happening yet actually, but it could be possible..

In the unlikely event that Silas was Beloved of Bast, he could enter R'lyeh and survive, "devouring gate" or not. In fact, he could survive passing his story, and then trot through R'lyeh like nobody else's business.

Oh, oh, or if he had The Messenger as an ally :-D I always knew the "anti-devour" mechanics would screw everything up...Such as Amanda not dying, but a Deep One would be placed in her space that she'd have to fight next movement phase (assuming she's in Arkham). Fighting an inner-demon much o_O Oh the symbolism!

(also, Taur, you used THREE expansion references in your example )

EcnoTheNeato said:

I don't think so. The Messenger shouldn't work for continous devourings. I think Tibs clarified this even in relation with Silas

Actually, I wouldn't consider this a continuous devouring. The devouring gate gets you once , and the failure (or passing) of his personal story gets you once . It's not like being Lost in Time and Space with Yog-Sothoth, or being at 0 san+sta or maximum san/sta.

Maybe it's as though a deep one approached Silas during his most vulnerable moment to get him to turn, and The Messenger sacrificed himself to stop the Deep One.

Tibs said:

You know you anwered me the other way around when I asked about this two months ago, do you?

Sorry Chris, again, nothing against you, but this thing of knowing or not knowing is killing me. Learning how to play correctly *is* a real PITA. I passed months studying in my free time this forum, collecting answers from different threads and learning them, and now too many things are changing and it's a mess. Really. It kills my desire for playing

Sorry about that. I could be persuaded that Silas will still become a Deep One, even if the Messenger takes a dive, simply because it's in his blood to befall that fate. This would be a thematic interpretation, as opposed to my mechanics interpretation above.

I really don't mean to hurt the game at all for you. Luckily, this situation is rare. I apologize.

Tibs said:

Don't worry Tibs, it's not something you did ::smiling:: Simply, everything seems a bit shifty in this time ::slippering on the wet floor:: Ok, I'll follow your guidelines for the Messenger!

Tibs said:

So, can the Messenger stop you from being turned into dust particles by Quacchil's dust deck? If so, when the investigator survives does the first player marker pass to the left?

I think the fateful dust card says "the first player is devoured. pass the first player to the left."

Mechanically, I don't see why The Messenger couldn't prevent the devouring. But Kevin did clarify that the first player token is passed only when the first player is devoured, so I guess the dust decks would be reset and begin again for that same investigator.