Ok, I know the correct answer here is "everything!", and I would if I could, but, alas, I cannot.

What I'm trying to do is get as a complete a ruleset as I can manage with the products that are currently being offered. To that end, I plan to get the Guides as I'm a Grognard and prefer books, especially since these are so nice. However, I'm not against the cards and bits and such and would like the option of using them - that's what the Player's Vaults are for, yes?

I'm a little confused, though. From what I can gather, it seems there's almost like two sets of products for WFRP now... the core set and the other boxed sets, plus the adventure's thingie, and then there's the guides with the vaults. I'm not especially keen on the core set because it seems to me, and I could be wrong, that the rules are spread out over different products - whatever the reason for that, and I'm not bitching, just commenting, it strikes me as the standard industry marketing ploy to push supplements with extra crunchy bits to get you to buy more products; D&D's been doing it for years so I guess there shouldn't be any surprise if that's the case.

The source of my confusion is a few posts I've read on the net that indicate that the core set and it's associated boxed sets have some rules and setting info that you can't get anywhere else. Is that true?

I guess my real question is, if I buy the Guides, what else do I have to buy to have as complete a set of rules as I can get? I was thinking:

• Player's, GM's, Creature Guides
• Player's, GM's, Creature Vualts
• GM's Toolkit

Something else... some folks at my local game store told me if I wanted to use the Guides only and I had 4-5 players I'd have to buy something like $40-$50 worth of dice. Is that also true? Geez, I hope not. That's almost insulting, especially considering I've collected hundreds of dice over the past 25+ years. Someone else said that if I was going to do that I might as well get the core set from amazon with one or two extra dice packs. For roughly $30-$40 more than 4 or 5 die sets would cost alone, I can get roughly the same amount of dice plus a bunch of the bits and the box to boot. What do you guys think?

I'm glad to see WFRP getting such a nice visual treatment (even though I still dig the old 1st ed art - I guess you had to be there), and I realize that means pricier books, but, geez... I stop paying attention to Warhammer for a year or so and when I get back into it I find there's like nearly $500 worth of stuff to buy! I don't know whether to be excited or frustrated by that.

Anyway, thanks in advance, and happy Warhammering.

The gm's vault comes with a complete set of dice.

jh

Wrahammer 3ed is an expensive game ...

Some might make the case that buying the bits is the milking players but I definitely would not. The system only comes alive (IMO) when you use all the bits. They are not extras tacked on to make a buck.

That being said FFG tried to produce a set of rules that would only require the special dice (again this isn't about making you buy dice, they are the very heart of the game and how it works). If you want to save money on dice there is an offical App for iPads/iPhones and web pages that simulate the dice roles for free.

(sorry I thought what was written below would be easier ... I hope it helps)

-

Here is a quick break down of products:

Core Set = basic players info, basic gm info, basic player bits, basic gm bits+dice, sample adventure

GM Toolkit = extra Gm info, bad guy party sheets, extra basic GM bits (+dice?)

Adventurer's Tollkit = more player careers, player bits for new careers, extra basic player bits

Winds of Magic = GM rules for corruption, fluff for magic, more magic like careers, more magic options, bits for new magic, adventure

Signs of Faith = GM rules for disease, fluff for faiths, more priest like careers, more priest options, bits for new faith stuff, adventure

GM Guide = basic GM info (core set), GM rules for corruption, GM Rules for disease, less fluff for faith/magic, sample adventure (core set), better explanation of rules/errata, no bits rules

GM Vault = basic GM bits+dice (core set only)

Player's Guide = Basic players info (core set), extra careers (Adventurer's toolkit), extra careers (Winds of Magic), extra careers (Signs of Faith), no bits rules

Player's Vault = basic player's bits (core set only) - ((does not include player bits from Adventurer's Toolkit, Winds of Magic, Signs of Faith))

Creauture's Guide = Beastiary, new bad guys

Creature's Vault = cards for bad guys in Creature's Guide, plus cards for creatures in previous all previous adventure/supplements

(Not in list above ... any adventures)

Wow, double thanks for that! The rundown of products is perfect and the mention of free websites is good news. I think I'm starting to get the big picture of how the products relate to each other. The boxed sets and the bits seem to drive the development of the game, both thematically and mechanically. At certain intervals all the rules to date are put into the Guide series, along with errata, going back to the last series. Separate bits products are offered for use with either play method (with or w/o bits). Is it something like that? If so, that's a pretty neat strategy.

Anyhoo, thanks, I know what to get now.

Hi, as a recent convert to 3E I found myself in the same position as you. I'm a bit set in my ways and like books, but the more I read about the system the more I decided that the cards and tokens were pretty much intrinsic to the game, and while its possible to play without them, it would be easier and as the designers intended to use them. I then realised that the Vaults don't contain all the cards from all the products, this would mean that if I wanted to use cards and tokens I would have to buy add on pruducts anyway.

My solution was to go the route of buying the Players Guide as an entry point to see if I liked the system, then buy the core set and add ons from there. The plan didn't work out like that, I went onto E-Bay to see if I could get a cheaper copy of the Guide but found a copy of the Core set for $44, and snapped it up. The books in the box are easy to understand and I've had no problems with them, it's also worth mentioning that the core set comes with three full sets of dice.

My path....

Core Set

Adventurers Kit

Winds of Magic

Signs of Faith

Next up - The Creature Guide & Vault, Players Guide to follow in the future.

Hope that helps

Mike

I forgot to mention that as far as I know the Gm Vault only comes with one set of dice, unlike the Core set that comes with Three.

Is that how you would do it if you had to do it over again?

Thx.

Yes, I got lucky getting the core set for such a low price (about £28 if your English), but the thing is, going the boxed sets route means that I have the complete game, if you are not going to use the cards and trackers then the guides are fine (although I think it would be a nightmare not having the action cards at least), but you should be aware that the Vaults only contain the cards and trackers from the core set (not the expansions like Winds of magic), the exception is the creature Vault that has everything from the Creature Guide.

If I hadn't got the core for such a good price I would have gone with the Players Guide as my entry point, but the thing is if I liked the game I was always going to buy the core set (by the time you've added the price of the GM's guide, Players and GM's Vaults and extra dice it just makes sense to get the boxed set), if you are in any doubt as to whether you will like the system, or if you are not going to use the tracking tokens and cards, the pick up the Players Vault and go from there, I would also check out E-Bay as you just may get lucky.

SmellHole said:

Yes, you pretty much nailed down the key problem. The speciality dice form the core part of the system. Anything else you can dispense with, but not the dice. If people with SmartPhones buy the mini-app mentioned above (that's $2.99 per player) you can save on buying dice. However, roleplaying without throwing dice on the table? That's something you gotta decide yourself if you really want.

The next alternative is to re-create the dice. This is time consuming, but possible. As you make perfectly clear, you own polyhedrals in abundance. Well, head over to the Headless Hollow Rules Summary (something you'll need anyway once you start playing), available here: www.headlesshollow.com/downloads/games/WFRP3_v1.pdf , and turn to page 9. You'll get a break down on which symbols are exactly on which dice, and how many of each. All you'll need is some self adhesive paper, or small sticker - apply these on your dice, done.

EXAMPLE: I took two blue 8-sided die. I decided that any roll above 4 will be a single hammer sign (that's a sign for success). Two sides (showing 1 and 2) I stickered over with a round blue sticker, so it now comes up blank. On the remaining two sides (3 and 4) I put yellow round stickers, and drew the eagles on. There, done. That took me, what, 30 seconds.

I don't really recommend to do this for all 36 dice, though, unless you're broke. It's a good way to fill in extra dice (like mis/fortune ones) but better avoid it.

Which gets us to my own recommended way of buying into the system, if all you really care are complete rules and you don't want to buy components unless they're indispensable for running the game (which, the dice apart, is true of ALL the components). Buy the three vaults. Buy three dice sets. Done. Or do what I did, buy the three vaults, two dice set, and the GM vault which contains another dice set. Pricing difference between a dice set and GM vault is marginal if you look around the internet, and you get some goodies you may wish to bring to the game (it's quicker to draw a wound card than roll 1d100 every time).

I saw in your signature that you play Lab Lord. I gotta wonder what brings you to Warhammer 3rd:

Either you want to go into something completely different; in that case, I strongly recommend getting the box set and nothing else. You'll understand the rules just fine, just print out the rules summary I mentioned above and read FFG's FAQ on these forums.

OR you want a RPG experience not quite remote from Lab Lord. Well, the essence of OSR games is that you don't want to have the mechanics dictate or otherwise strongly influence player choices. Guess what, component galore on the table is just that. If that's your angle, avoid the Core Box like the pest. Have the players stencil in the manouevers they want by copying them from the Player's Guide. They only do this when leveling up, it takes hardly any time, and guess what - a note on a char sheet is a lot less intrusive on players' making decision than a stash of beautiful cards is. Rather, encourage players to try to do whatever they come up with, and roll with it - the dice system is really made for improvised play. Core Box sorta recognized that, so it puts another card in the player's hand which basically says "think outside the box". Well, guess what, take the shiny cards away from the players and they'll do that anyway.

So really, pricing is only one consideration when you come to Warhammer 3rd. The real question is, what sort of gaming experience do you expect or wish to get out of the game. For me the dice system is the core of that experience, and that's true for both the "Either" and "OR" I just described. Sort of relates to the points I started out on. If you care about the dice, I wouldn't proxy them by either Smartphone apps or stickering.