Hi guys, as I said in another tread (possibly in more than one), I'm a very big fan of Antistone's wonderful Herogen character editor for Descent. As Antistone always writes, though, Herogen is designed for Vanilla Descent. Now, since many Descent players play both Vanilla and Advanced Campaign, it's only normal that characters made with Herogen end-up being used in AC as well. Personally I'm playing right now a campaign featuring two characters made with Herogen (two main 5CT tanks, a melee and a multiclass melee/ranged) and I can say they work pretty much well in AC without the need of power balancing and stuff.

The whole point of this tread is to somehow "FAQ" a few abilities which make little- to non-sense in AC.

Here goes the list:

Sir Valadir’s Improved - After making an attack roll, you may spend 1 fatigue to add all the remaining black dice to your roll.

As things are, this ability would be very lame in AC, since characters tend to reach 5 power dice by the end of copper of middle silver campaign. Actually in AC it would end-up being worse than the FAQed original Sir Valadir's ability, which is pretty lame! A way to make it playable in AC would be to give it the same effect as power potions (which is actually what it makes in Vannilla right now), adding 5 power dice/power die improvements for 1 fatigue. Still, this seems a bit too much to me, so I'd soften it a bit, making it somewhat like 3-4 power dice/power die improvements (within campaign level limits of course) per fatigue spent. Need some opinions here.

Tava the Talented's Ability - You may purchase new skills from the town shop for half the normal cost.

Hard to tell how this would play in campaign...Aside from the fact you don't buy skills in shop (it applies when you train of course in AC), what would you halve, coin cost, xp cost, or both?

Wild Strikes - When you make an attack roll, black dice that roll blanks are worth +3 damage, +3 range, and 3 surges, but other black dice have no effect.

This ability doesn't scale up with the campaign, which is very lame in AC. Usually FFG has tried to make so that most abilities somehow scaled up with it and it seems only fair that this does too. Somewhere else it was suggested every silver blank being worth +6 damage, +6 range and 6 surges and every gold blank being worth +9 damage, +9 range, +9 surges. Perhaps a scaling of +3/+5/+7 would be more balanced? Opinions are always welcome.

Eagerness - When a new area is revealed during your turn, you gain extra movement points equal to your speed.

Big problem. It may work just as written during dungeon levels with areas, but those are very few (just rumors, legendary dungeons and overlord keeps) making it almost worthless. How about it also works every time a new dungeon level (except for the first in a dungeon) is revealed, as long as the guy with the ability was the first to exit the previous level through the exit area?

Ambush - When a new area is revealed, you may immediately move to any empty square in that area.

This one is simpler and could just work every time a dungeon level (after the first) is revealed in addition to when areas are revealed (in rumors, etc...).

Perfect Skill - After all heroes draw starting skills, search the <Skill1> skill deck and take any skill of your choice, then shuffle that deck.

Does this ability actually give 1 EXTRA starting (and chosen) skill? If so it'd be definitely broken in AC, since it would allow a character to begin with 2 skills instead of 1. Otherwise, I see no problem with allowing a character to choose his single starting skill in AC. A good ability, not a broken one.

Tinker - You can Shop in any location (as if you were in town).

What do you believe should be the limits of "shopping" as if one were in town in AC? I believe it should be limited to buying/selling items in AC, since allowing instantaneous training would be a bit too much in AC. Perhaps one could also allow buying Rumors... And what about disposable treasure items when you're "tinkering" in the middle of a dungeon? Single random draw as in Vanilla would be a possibility, another could be same availability as in Tamalir/Home Port.

Untouchable - When you drink an Invulnerability Potion, you may immediately place a Dodge order.

The problem here is simple: AC does not use Invulnerabilty Potions. Solution could be choosing another kind of potion to have it work with. There's some positive interaction between +10Armor and a Dodge order redied, so I'd be better if some kind of positive interaction applied also in AC and the only potion (right now) giving something like that is the Invisibility Potion. So I'd just have this ability work with Invisibility potions in AC.

Tincture of Fate - When you drink an Invulnerability Potion, instead of the usual effect, you may choose to discard 4 of the overlord's threat tokens.

Same as before, it must work with another kind of potion. This time I'd go for a single-purpose use potion. Power, perhaps?

Miser - You don't lose coins when you die.

No use at all in AC...this one's troublesome. Now not loosing coins when you die in Vanilla would be the same as gaining coins equal to what you loose when you die (a bit strange, but it's like that, isn't it?). Since you don't lose coins when you die in AC, Miser could have some effect like: "The Party gains 100 coins when you die" (the character is so miserable that when he pops out half dead in town, people give him tithes...). For 20 BPs it should even be decently balanced.

This list is probably non-exhaustive of the abilities that require some FAQing or scaling-up in AC, but they are those that got to my eye at the moment. Also it should be noted (as Antistone repeatedly wrote) that some costs (like those of additional skills) should probably be different for characters used in AC. I believe that somehow the average cost of characters is ok (balance-wise) both for Vanilla and AC. Simply put: some characters have more campaign potential than others. This goes also for many original characters (just think at Trenloe, whose ability to re-roll a silver/gold die in AC may really make the difference between killing a monster or failing it), so I believe it's ok like that.

Everyone is very welcome to participate in this topic and I want to thank once more Antistone for gifting us with such a funny tool like his editor.

Sir Valadir's Improved - When making an attack, you may spend 1 fatigue to upgrade all power dice to the next level of dice, from black to silver, and silver to gold.

That seems pretty balanced to me, all things considering. That's a virtual 5 points, but depending on how you use it, it ends up just slightly more powerful than normal Valadir's ability... Or alternately "<Insert normal Valadir AC ability here>. Blanks count as enhancements when you roll them." That would be better than Valadir's normal ability, and give the Advanced Campaign version a slight edge without being useless or over-powerful necessarily.

Tava the Talented's Ability - I would have all costs halved, honestly, just to make the ability more useful. Skills in the AC are expensive >.>

Wild Strikes - I think the +3/+5/+7 is more fair than the +3/+6/+9, because the second one could really get rediculous >.>

Eagerness - Perhaps letting the hero start anywhere in the initial area? In other words, anywhere the heroes have sight of when they enter the dungeon? Most dungeons that's not much, but it's handy, kindof...

Ambush - I'd have this limited to any area the character could normally reach. I.E. Not behind locked doors and such, otherwise that seems good.

Perfect Skill - I'd make it the single starting skill. We play a variant where heroes start with all their skills eitherway, and I don't see what's so powerful about heroes with all their skills. I still end up ahead of them in conquest and power eitherway most of the time >.>

Tinker - "You may buy items and potions as if you were in town." That's what I'd change it to for AC. Honestly, I don't se this being any more broken in AC than Vanilla, and I don't see there needing to be much change. Just don't allow them to train in the dungeon, is all.

Untouchable - "When you drink a potion, instead of the normal effects you may gain +3/+6/+9 Armor and you may immediately place a dodge order." Perhaps scaling with the campaign level, as noted above... That will make it less "Hi, I'm not completely invincible" and more "Hey, look at me, I'm tough as hell!"

Tincture of Fate - "When you drink a potion, instead of the usual effect, you may choose to discard 3 of the overlord's threat tokens" Perhaps versatility at a lack of some of the power?

Miser - "Your group gains twice the normal amount of coins from master monsters, and 25 coins from non-master monsters." Perhaps? That would make it useful in campaign, and probably end up equalling roughly the same amount (Most characters with Miser are kindof wimps eitherway), and would less encourage players to go die to earn some extra money.

The Valadir Improved variant you suggested seems very interesting to me (the first one) as long as the limit for upgraded dice per campaign level applies.

I agree on Tava The Talented's ability.

I'll try Wild Strike with +3/+5/+7 as soon as I have an occasion.

Eagerness like that is pretty useless...I believe it should just give movement points before beginning a dungeon level (except for the first) before the beginning of the first turn.

I agree on limitations on Ambush.

Perfect skill should just let you choose the starting skill on AC. It's strong enough like that.

I also like your idea on tinker (I forgot about potions), but i'd also let the character sell, not just buy items and potions. The matter on what items can be bought is still unresolved though...

Your ideas about Untouchable and Tincture of Fate are nice...but I'd like more opinions on those.

As for Miser I prefer my variant...more sticking to the original...besides unless the character is 1CT worth, 100 coins for having it die isn't still very good for the party.

Thanks Tadask for your useful answer! Still waiting for more responses!

Wild Strikes is fine with +6 +9 remember that it retains the same ratio that it has on black.

If you have 5 silver dices you would normaly do 10 damage, and if you roll a single black dice (60% of the time only) you get 12 damage (6 surges and 6 damage so it is hardly unbalancing)

If you have 5 gold dices you would normaly do 15 damage while now you do 18 damage 60% of the time.

I would even consider it a lame ability if you can't aim your attacks to increase your chance of getting the blank. I don't know if you fully understand the ability as i did not in the beginning. Other power dices do nothing no matter what you roll. So 40% of the time you will do far less damage than anyone else probably so low as negating your whole attack in terms of effectivenes. Making it 3,5,7 will just make it even lame.

This is the character we use in our AC the wording is not perfect but we know what we meant

Now on other abilities eagerness is kinda useless in AC and should be seriously downgrade in cost if it was to be used.

Ambush seems weird but remember that you can place your character anywhere you want but that is before the OL places the monsters cause you reveal the AREA before placing the monsters and it can seriously unbalance the game by ambushing the BOSS every time with a fighter. We just never use it since it needs serious rebuilding.

Other abilities i really didn't bother cause they really don't stick with AC or are not worth the effort.

I have extensively played antistone's character in AC and i am more interested in fixing the unbalanced skills that slipped the cracks.

As Vigor, Death Cheater, Fate Cleaver for being dominating and breaking the game.

And abilities like bandolier, Ytriana Zephyrtide's Ability (which costs the same as brother glyr's ability but is far less versatile) and many others who need to be fixed in cost.

Anyway i have made 72 custom characters and really enjoy playing them in AC hope you do yours to